Should PRCs be linked closely with Sundren factions?

[Phantom Lamb]

Sundren has many prestige classes available to players. Some are open access--anyone who meets the prerequisites for them can immediately level up in these PRCs. Others are restricted by DM approval, based upon role play performance. Many of these restricted PRCs are tied closely to a specific Sundren faction, such as the Black Hand or Wardens of the Vale.

The question for this poll keys in the final bit. How often would you like to see it required that you join a specific faction to unlock access to a prestige class? Do you find it too restrictive to do so? Or do you feel it adds to the story by having you become part of set lore?

[Peridan]

I happen to think this a great idea. I personally have always been slightly annoyed more people don't join factions, whether it's to further their characters own personal goals or just because it falls in line with their beliefs as a person.

However, just because I think it's a great idea, doesn't mean it is. I would concede that there still should be a place for non-lore PRC's in Sundren, and thus my vote is one down from what I would normally put.

[Iso]

I feel it would greatly restrict characters and for no good reason if every Prestige Class were restricted to factions. Obviously a Dreadmaster of Bane should be someone closely tied with the forces of Bane, but Warpriests for example come from almost all religious backgrounds and most races.

I have voted 'Sometimes--only when it really makes sense to do so.'

[Fezzik]

I had a lengthy message for this... accidently hit the damn button on the mouse, so in summary.

1) Agreement with Peridan (someone put a mark on the wall! )
2) I would have to say often then instead of always, mostly for the same reasons... I would like people to join one specific faction for some reason other than being a Holy Roller, as they're often called... but, I'm biased... and lonely

edited ps.

I also think it might be a good idea to include a more general neutral learning faction - something that would encompass the library, Oghma, and future? harpers

[Cornuto]

Sometimes--only when it really makes sense to do so.

I'd love to see NEW Faction specifc PRCs ADDED, rather than add restrictions to the ones we've already got.

[KimKandor]

I voted "Sometimes only when it really makes sense" as I feel the poll is using 2 different variables. I would leave out the amounts and just say things like:

1. Only when it makes sense
1. when it really makes sense
2. Only when it makes sense according to lore
3. It doesn't have to make sense at all open to everyone with reqs

As someone who joined a faction on Sundren as quickly as possible, yes I love the factions, and yes I think the PRCs can be used to enhance them, and yes I think most players should join some faction but that would require some more factions I believe. So otherwise no, they don't have too.

[Saulus]

Don't expect to see more factions anytime soon. Just designing the current ones is a monumental effort.

[joker]

Often--any time it makes sense with the faction lore.

I would like to add that it should be made easier to join the factions. It has been mentioned in other posts that the staff is working on quests to join factions. Hopefully this would be implemented before any restrictions are placed on the PRCs.

[Vicissitudes]

I voted: Sometimes--only when it really makes sense to do so.

Firstly, I think the possibility of and ability to join factions is a great feature of the server. However, in reply to:

I happen to think this a great idea. I personally have always been slightly annoyed more people don't join factions, whether it's to further their characters own personal goals or just because it falls in line with their beliefs as a person.

I'd point out that for the majority of characters, most of the factions simply won't be relevant enough to them, to justify joining. Tying more PrCs to factions is not really an IC solution, it's an OOC "mechanics" solution to something which at the moment I don't see as a problem anyway, and not one I think that would enhance RP to any great extent.

...yes I think most players should join some faction but that would require some more factions I believe.

I don't think most players "should" - I would be a bigger supporter of player freedom and individuality than I would be for factions and guilds and the like, unless the setting specifically necessitates it, such as with Planescape's Sigil's Factions. However, even if I did believe, as you do, that most players should join some faction, I would have to agree that at the moment there simply are not enough factions for this policy to be supported.

Take Violet, my character. What faction is she going to join? There's simply not one relevant to her. She's not going to join the good aligned factions, or the evil ones, because she's not a Hero or a Villain. She's just a very normal, deeply flawed person. The ONLY faction it'd make sense to have her join, is Sundren Commoner, Sundren, or Sundren Merchant. Even the latter one is a push.

If there were some University faction, a ?Waukeenite/ian? faction, an Amnish expatriot faction, a Library faction as suggested, or a halfling faction such as, I don't know, Yondalla's Children, or Luiren's People for example, then I might consider joining them. But there aren't such factions, so without warping and bending her there's no way she'd fit into any of the factions.

The same would go, I believe, for perhaps the majority of players and characters.

I feel it would greatly restrict characters and for no good reason if every Prestige Class were restricted to factions. Obviously a Dreadmaster of Bane should be someone closely tied with the forces of Bane, but Warpriests for example come from almost all religious backgrounds and most races.

I agree for the most part with this.

It makes more sense for Red Wizards of Thay and Thayan Knights to be tied to the Thayan faction than it does for them to be open.
It makes more sense for Ice Furies of Auril to be tied to the Aurilite faction than it does for them to be open. (Is there an Aurilite faction? I forget, and I'm not ingame at the moment to check.)
It makes more sense for Dreadmasters of Bane to be tied to the Banite faction than it does for them to be open.

Aside from these very specific examples, and possibly one or two more, I do not see the value of making PrCs faction-specific. And even in these above cases, leeway should be given to those who wish to play "rogue" Baneites, Thayans, Aurilites, etc - though those cases would probably be rare.

I understand the wish of developers, and some senior RPers of a server to wish to bind players' roleplay to the lore of the server, through factions and the like. But this isn't always a good thing, and more often than not if done too much, leaves those who do not play characters likely to join factions, out in the cold. Sometimes, "server setting egotism" and the pushing of a server's setting and factions too much upon players and characters can actually be destructive and harmful to roleplay, as it restricts opportunities, and doesn't offer the RP that those who push such an approach, think it does.

[Peridan]

While derailing this thread seems like a poor choice, I will have to respond my thoughts on this matter further, trying to keep it in context of the issue at hand: tying some PrC's to the factions.

I do agree with Cornuto in that new PrC's should be tied to factions, but not the ones existing. It wouldn't make too much sense to restrict the ones we have now to anything other than the obvious factions they represent.

However, in response to Vicissitudes I must explain myself more thoroughly. Player individuality and freedom are important, this is true. One should be able to make whichever character they want for the server and play them however they want. But I believe that the factions, a great feature as you said, are being sorely underused by the player population. These factions are not square holes, in which only a square peg of certain dimensions can fit into. All types of people can make their way in these factions, whatever their class and whatever their goals. A mage can just as easily fit into the Exigo as she can in the Thayan Enclave or the Legion.

Making it more desirable for people to join these factions by giving them custom PrC's is not a bad thing, or a restricting one. It simply adds a new dimension of characterization upon the existing person.

She's not going to join the good aligned factions, or the evil ones, because she's not a Hero or a Villain. She's just a very normal, deeply flawed person.

Being a normal person is not a bad thing either. In fact, some of the best role play I have ever seen is entrenched in people's flaws and their differentiating viewpoints on a situation. But to be honest, as PC's we have a role in being a Hero or a Villain. Perhaps the line between them shifts and distorts, or even explodes in a flurry of moral choices that makes it impossible for one to truly call themselves one or the other. But it is flirting with that line, choosing a side that makes excellent role play in my opinion. Faction joining only adds to that, makes a PC decide what is important to them when faced with a conflicting choice. Should the wizard abandon her fellow Exigo employee's? Or should she go back and try her best to save as many as possible. Or even should she claim no knowledge of the event at all, and say she was knocked out and thus freeing herself from any responsibility in the matter?

All I am saying is that there is a goldmine of opportunity here that is waiting to be found. It is not a bad thing to place restrictions on your character and what they can do, such as letting your wizard into the Legion to access the mountain of scholarly information but having to uphold the law at the same time. Or even to remove restrictions by joining the Black Hand, and killing people that make you angry as opposed to having to let them live when keeping a civil face in public.

By making factions more desirable with PrC's, it is inducing more complicated role play, not only for the server but your character as well.

[Kaeldorn]

Often--any time it makes sense with the faction lore

Not to get too long-winded, I'm with Peridan in just about everything he said on this thread. Having a bond with a group of fellow player characters who share common goals makes an excellent anchor to start RP from, or to fall back on when you have problems with something. Factions CAN make the world go 'round if more folks join them.

Bear in mind that you no longer need to be part of a subfaction to be in a faction as well!

You can be alleged to the Arbiter's Alliance, the general orderly do-gooder faction, without being an actual Triumvirate follower or Helmite. A follower of a different good-aligned deity like Lathander, Mystra or Sune? Someone who desires a thriving society based on principles you're willing to further where others can't? They fit right in.

You can be a thug or thief with the backing of the Cartel without being an actual gang member or Eboncoin Agent. You can operate on your own agenda while siding with a more organized whole when it's beneficial to you both. Help out occasionally to stay in good graces and use them for cover when you're in trouble.

Etc.

You can always decide to join a subfaction later, if you feel it makes sense.

Something I suggest to further this approach is to add an extra level of access to faction forums. Have one private part for each over arching faction where only the truly trusted individuals (subfaction members) get the most delicate information, and then another more open part to provide general info for the loose members. The latter need not be limited to a 'one faction forum per player' basis. It's now too much of an issue that someone who plays multiple characters can only really get access to one faction forum and be cut off from even basic faction info for his other characters. This lessens the drive for people to get involved in the faction business.

[Thief Of Navarre]

I already put some surgestions in my Prestige classes post about the Nightsong infiltrator & enforcer. Since Sundren doesnt have the nightsong guild it could easily be a veritas PrC set or part of the Eboncoin Pact

[Phantom Lamb]

Joker--soon as we get the rest of the faction stores implemented, join quests will follow.

[KimKandor]

I think adding a faction of Traveler, or Commoner would alleviate much of the problem people have with thinking they're forced to join a faction and thus change their characters imclination.

When joining all PCs could automatically be joined to it. Then, with the PRCs tied to the factions there is incentive to join one.

So I guess I should change my original vote , even without the additional faction as Peridan made some very inteligent comments which I agree with.

Mark me down as: Often--any time it makes sense with the faction lore.

[Saulus]

Factions are the focus of the server folks, there may not be one for every single playstyle but I would like to believe that there's factions that aren't always good or evil. Exigo for instance, even the Sundarian Legion... etc.

If you don't want to join a faction, that's fine... but you will likely feel a bit left out. Most of the beneficial gear ends up coming from factions/crafting. It's just more motivation to interact with other people.

Should someone want to be a loner, that's fine... but that doesn't mean you can't be a loner doing a job for faction X and be a member. No one is forcing anyone to do anything, but I can encourage a playstyle I desire by offering incentives... if people don't want to take advantage of them that's fine.