Clerics must match Deity - Starting Today

[Caligula]

It doesn't mean he has to accept it. Finding a more appropriate server may be the best alternative. Too many restrictions always suck.

[Kangleton]

you just contradict youself in the way of cleric's alingment shift and he loses his power of his deiti. so does the paladin, He need to donate to the church almost all his money, he must not loot from corpses that he has slain! he can get money from a ctreasure, but he cannot break open a chest. and for the other part - if he should join a party with a rogue or another evil person or for the matter of fact a majority of evil peoples in the party he whould leave the party or else his alignment whould shif and his powers whould go away!

ps. your edit, i chould easily make a char that whould beat your lvl 15 char with 2 domain's ( 2 of the best domains ) you guys sounds like the cleric is to powerfull and PG type of charactor..

No, I didn't contradict myself. And your understanding of the Paladin is limited. There are a lot of templates that a Paladin may revolve around, and a lot of different oaths that they must take, and some that they could take - some are optional. You make it seem as though there is only one kind, with one set of codes, oaths, and rules, and that you completely understand it to it's fullest extent.

What you need to understand is, is that this server is an RP server. It has many other aspects that make it more well-rounded, but first and foremost, this place was designed for purposes of Role-Playing, with other things coming as secondary. A symptom of RP, is that everything that happens or will happen, must have a reason that makes sense, as per the setting. With that said, I'm going to outline something for you, which makes no sense:

If a Cleric broke all the rules of his deity, and failed to say, do, or be what was required of him as his God had demanded it, it would make NO sense that the Deity would continue to grant the Cleric world-shattering spells. Why would a God continue to allow you to make people implode, or raise from the dead, when you won't even follow the most basic rules and guidelines that your God requests. Hell, if I were a God, I'd feel you were taking advantage of me, and you could bet that you would provoke my wrath.

So, please, understand the simple logic that Clerics must use appropriate domains, if you really want to support the spirit of RP that this server strives towards.

[rustediron]

Kang, I'd rep your post, but I repped you already, so you gotta wait a bit

In any case, a very nice post.

Also, if you think clerics are nerfed, then the simple solution is just not to play one. In an RP server, I believe it makes sense for RP to come before balance.

[Gairun]

First off, to the hard to read poster who is beating this dead horse senseless, This server is owned by Saulus and his design team. They have decided, (After they gathered some input from those they wanted to hear from) that the ruling on divine classes is that they must have a diety selected and choose appropriate domains. That ruling is law here, if you don't like it you don't have to play, you can simply move on to a non role-playing server. This is a dictatorship, all PW's are, we are just lucky that it is a benign dictatorship.

If you want to make a suggestion to how domains work then go ahead and post a suggestion, then leave it at that. Anything more just seems like a temper tantrum.

P.S. Kangleton you did a nice job with that last post, kudos buddy.

[Caligula]

If you look at it from a larger perspective, you should be able to see his point. Basically, he's annoyed at the restriction because
too many restrictions will be an annoyance. Imagine a fighter not being allowed to take weapon focus because his deity disapproves of it. This is not a PnP, but a computer game - please differentiate.

I know this game is based upon PnP, but if you want it to be as similar as possible, you should rewrite the entire engine of the game. Don't fix it if it ain't broken.

I'm an old vet from nwn1 (helped develop a server and played on plenty). If many of you have played nwn1, and you played on anphilla, you should know what I'm talking about.

[Gairun]

Basically, he's annoyed at the restriction because too many restrictions will be an annoyance .

That is purely your opinion and not a fact. If you want to make a suggestion go ahead, if the OWNERS of this server say no then accept it, anything else is just a temper tantrum.

[Dark presence]

Everything should be able to be voiced and heard and discussed, even if it won't ever be changed.

Fact is there are a lot of questionable design issues with the cleric domains. Take Bane and Shar, they have rather limited domain selections. Yet they are major deities, the most powerful evil deities there are. But, there are demigods with more domains to pick from! I've never understood why Shar doesn't grant the Trickery domain. And, looking at our list, when Talosian clerics on Sundren can't have access to lightning spells with their domains, that does raise a very legitimate concern.

This isn't necessarily a Sundren or NWN2 problem, but it can also be a FR problem in general. I don't think it would be a bad idea to expand the domains allowed for many of the gods. I do agree the domains for each god should be limited, but there are several cases where there are some serious things lacking.

Of course the current domains also should be fleshed out more. I think that is a big reason many people do not feel compelled to care about their domains, because they maybe give two spells and a silly power. They are not particularly defining.

[Kangleton]

To address what a few people have said about disliking limitations, and that this server shouldn't strive to "fix what isn't broken", I have a suggestion:

Go play on Forgotten Realm.

I'm not trying to promote the abandonment of Sundren, but that particular aforementioned server has absolutely no changes or alterations. I'm fairly certain that it is exactly as NWN2 came, and no limits are imposed on players, in regards to how they use the engine and game mechanics. It sounds more like the kind of place one might enjoy themselves if they dissaprove of limitations. It is also quite a popular server.

If you choose to stay here, however, you must accept that realism is a factor here, and Sundren tries to stay true to the setting it bases itself within. That was probably part of the vision that Saulus and the other developers had when creating Sundren, and you should be more understanding that they have the right to pursue what they had in mind, and there are some of us who enjoy it.

[Jaeram]

Also keep in mind that this is still a beta and things are being added all the time. The developers may plan to flesh out cleric domains at some point but because of the fact that clerics are pretty much the most powerful, single, class in the game it's probably not very pertinent to give them more power. Just because this is the way it is now doesn't mean it will always be that way, but everything has a priority.

[Jrk-]

To address what a few people have said about disliking limitations, and that this server shouldn't strive to "fix what isn't broken", I have a suggestion:

Go play on Forgotten Realm.

I'm not trying to promote the abandonment of Sundren, but that particular aforementioned server has absolutely no changes or alterations. I'm fairly certain that it is exactly as NWN2 came, and no limits are imposed on players, in regards to how they use the engine and game mechanics. It sounds more like the kind of place one might enjoy themselves if they dissaprove of limitations. It is also quite a popular server.

If you choose to stay here, however, you must accept that realism is a factor here, and Sundren tries to stay true to the setting it bases itself within. That was probably part of the vision that Saulus and the other developers had when creating Sundren, and you should be more understanding that they have the right to pursue what they had in mind, and there are some of us who enjoy it.

i think youre right i might go play on Forgottenrealms, they let people play their char in that perspective, that you can RP and not how the build is!

[sharringtonm]

Ok, enough. I think this is no longer productive to the server when people start leaving the server.

[Saulus]

Go make your own server if you don't like our rules. I didn't start Sundren to listen to people whine and bitch because they don't like the design philosophy. Rather than respectably bowing out and leaving, you decide to escalate things further.

If you're going to be a child by threatening to play somewhere else, then why should your opinion count for anything? Why should anyone really care? I sure as hell don't.