Clerics must match Deity - Starting Today

[Jrk-]

Actually I think its just that we agree

grrrr hehe

[sparkeh]

2.Question: Why not do it like the wizards. If you are a necromancer you cannot have Illusion spell. and so on

Because those aren't the rules. The rules are as we have told you.

I don't get what you are trying to ask.
Its like you are saying "Ok I get the rules but why not wipe them and make up our own?"

[Landaren]

IYO it is, so then the cleric should not multiclass eighter, cos that will also go against his deiti and the meaning of a holy warrior. meaning cleric should not muticlass with a monk or frenze beserker? all im saying dont limit cleric's as a class.

ps. if this is RP minded nerf of the cleric then we should strip paladin's power if he/she loot's from chests mob and other items cos thats against a paladin deiti.!

That's not entirely true, Banite clerics multiclass with fighters often, or so I have read.

I do think it would open things up a little if we made a list of 3 or 4 open domains that cleric would be able to can pick form, and then have them choose one from their diety. That's just an opinion thought.

[Jrk-]

Because those aren't the rules. The rules are as we have told you.

I don't get what you are trying to ask.
Its like you are saying "Ok I get the rules but why not wipe them and make up our own?"

you only answer 1 question what about question 3 its just as important for the whole deal here!

i wont argue with you anymore until you answer my 3'rd question!

[sparkeh]

i wont argue with you anymore until you answer my 3'rd question!

There is no point arguing over this. It is clear why it is the way it is and it is clear that its not going to change.

Your question has been answered.

[Jrk-]

There is no point arguing over this. It is clear why it is the way it is and it is clear that its not going to change.

Your question has been answered.

no it hasssent , you want the cleric to obey the rules for pen and paper but not the paladin ?? i dont get it. what i see here is that the cleric is getting nerfed and im only been giving 1 reason why its nerfed ,that it should apply to the pen and paper, then so should paladins also then..

[Kangleton]

Your third question being the Paladin example? Thats easy...

Paladins are punished for breaking their oaths, or the rules of their deity or alignment. If a DM witnessed it, you'd be in trouble. And last I heard, it wasn't against a Paladin's code to loot a chest of a fallen enemy, unless the Paladin took an oath of poverty - but even then he could loot it and give it away, or use it himself, considering an oath of poverty still allows for the bear minimum of what is required to live (armor and weapons apply, in the case of a holy warrior).

But if you really did make a Paladin, and you proceeded to run around and loot everything, selling it at ridiculously high prices, and hoarding gold for yourself... you'd probably attract negative attention from the DM's, unless you could somehow justify your actions really, really well.

Druids cannot wear metal armors, as a general rule. Paladin's have to follow their oaths, as a general rule. Wizards have to study to learn their spells, as a general rule. And Clerics have to follow the codes of their deity, as a general rule. The only reason these rules are "general" is because there are instances where they don't apply - but in those cases, there will always be a consequence of some sort, which is normally going to end badly for your character, or in an alignment shift at the very least. What that equates to for Clerics, is that if you do not follow the demands of your deity, by supporting his or her domains, you shall get an alignment shift and probably lose the support of your God, and thus, your sponsor for divine spells.

EDIT: I have to point out, secondly, that you really shouldn't care that a Cleric should follow his outlined domains. Do you think that makes the class weak? Do you really consider that a nerf? If I had a level 15 Cleric, with NO domains, I'd still beat the shit out of anyone on the server, barring another Cleric. Mm'kay?

[Landaren]

Well said. I was just going to say its a house rules.

Kinda like at the local bar, you can't play 9 ball. So you play by the house rules or you don't play.


But yeah your post was much better

[Jrk-]

Your third question being the Paladin example? Thats easy...

Paladins are punished for breaking their oaths, or the rules of their deity or alignment. If a DM witnessed it, you'd be in trouble. And last I heard, it wasn't against a Paladin's code to loot a chest of a fallen enemy, unless the Paladin took an oath of poverty - but even then he could loot it and give it away, or use it himself, considering an oath of poverty still allows for the bear minimum of what is required to live (armor and weapons apply, in the case of a holy warrior).

But if you really did make a Paladin, and you proceeded to run around and loot everything, selling it at ridiculously high prices, and hoarding gold for yourself... you'd probably attract negative attention from the DM's, unless you could somehow justify your actions really, really well.

Druids cannot wear metal armors, as a general rule. Paladin's have to follow their oaths, as a general rule. Wizards have to study to learn their spells, as a general rule. And Clerics have to follow the codes of their deity, as a general rule. The only reason these rules are "general" is because there are instances where they don't apply - but in those cases, there will always be a consequence of some sort, which is normally going to end badly for your character, or in an alignment shift at the very least. What that equates to for Clerics, is that if you do not follow the demands of your deity, by supporting his or her domains, you shall get an alignment shift and probably lose the support of your God, and thus, your sponsor for divine spells.

you just contradict youself in the way of cleric's alingment shift and he loses his power of his deiti. so does the paladin, He need to donate to the church almost all his money, he must not loot from corpses that he has slain! he can get money from a ctreasure, but he cannot break open a chest. and for the other part - if he should join a party with a rogue or another evil person or for the matter of fact a majority of evil peoples in the party he whould leave the party or else his alignment whould shif and his powers whould go away!

ps. your edit, i chould easily make a char that whould beat your lvl 15 char with 2 domain's ( 2 of the best domains ) you guys sounds like the cleric is to powerfull and PG type of charactor..

[GRCrush]

Let me bring to the Dms attention this description. It was taken from 1 of many actual forgotten realm wiki sites. I referenced several to make sure that the majority where the same.

Deities of Faer?n - Human

Talos

Power: Greater deity
Title: The Destroyer, Storm Lord
Alignment: CE
Worshipers: CN, NE, CE
Clerics: CN, NE, CE
Symbol: An explosive lightning strike
Domains: Chaos, Destruction, Evil, Fire, Storm, Wrath
Portfolio: storms, destruction, rebellion, conflagrations, earthquakes, vortices
Favored weapon: A lightning bolt (longspear, shortspear,or halfspear)
Specifically Opposed Deities: Chauntea, Helm, Ilmater, Lathander, Shaundakul, Silvanus

Festivals:
Calling Down the Thunder (Midwinter)
Calling Down the Thunder (Greengrass)
Calling Down the Thunder (Midsummer)
Calling Down the Thunder (Shieldmeet)
Calling Down the Thunder (Higharvestide)
Calling Down the Thunder (Moonfest)

Popular Regions
Anauroch (Human)
Calimshan (Human)
Lapaliiya (Human)
Moonsea (Human)
Narfell (Human)
Nelanther Isles (Human)
Ride, The (Human)
Turmish (Human)
Vaasa (Human)
Great Glacier (Dwarf)
Moonsea (Orc and Half-Orc)
Calimshan (Planetouched

I mention this because if you reference the Gods & Pantheon list for certian dieties on Sundren many domains are incomplete compared to their actual forgotten realms pantheons. Thus hamper to some extent the personaa certain dieties cleric would carry.

Talos On Sundren does not have the domain Storm or in NWN2 case those same powers would be the domain of Air. ALmost every single festival ritual used by priest of Talos involves lightning including their greatest one Calling down the thunder.
Also note a prerequiste to become a stormlord is tha the priest must be struck by lightning and survive.

If a priset does not have access to the proepr domains for his diety how is he to perform some of his duties to certain rituals. This portion should aslo be considered by players as well when you are making a cleric without using proper domains. How is your cleric going to perform some of his duties if he does not have the access to the domain of his god.


All that said I think GBX Saulus and all the DM's and designers do an excellant job
with Sundren. I wish them the best in what they do.

Ps: on a side note your lucky they are suggesting you follow rather then I. As I would just strip your cleric of his spells and fail to answer your prayers if you do not believe as your god believes by following his given domains

[Jrk-]

Let me bring to the Dms attention this description. It was taken from 1 of many actual forgotten realm wiki sites. I referenced several to make sure that the majority where the same.

Deities of Faer?n - Human

Talos

Power: Greater deity
Title: The Destroyer, Storm Lord
Alignment: CE
Worshipers: CN, NE, CE
Clerics: CN, NE, CE
Symbol: An explosive lightning strike
Domains: Chaos, Destruction, Evil, Fire, Storm, Wrath
Portfolio: storms, destruction, rebellion, conflagrations, earthquakes, vortices
Favored weapon: A lightning bolt (longspear, shortspear,or halfspear)
Specifically Opposed Deities: Chauntea, Helm, Ilmater, Lathander, Shaundakul, Silvanus

Festivals:
Calling Down the Thunder (Midwinter)
Calling Down the Thunder (Greengrass)
Calling Down the Thunder (Midsummer)
Calling Down the Thunder (Shieldmeet)
Calling Down the Thunder (Higharvestide)
Calling Down the Thunder (Moonfest)

Popular Regions
Anauroch (Human)
Calimshan (Human)
Lapaliiya (Human)
Moonsea (Human)
Narfell (Human)
Nelanther Isles (Human)
Ride, The (Human)
Turmish (Human)
Vaasa (Human)
Great Glacier (Dwarf)
Moonsea (Orc and Half-Orc)
Calimshan (Planetouched

I mention this because if you reference the Gods & Pantheon list for certian dieties on Sundren many domains are incomplete compared to their actual forgotten realms pantheons. Thus hamper to some extent the personaa certain dieties cleric would carry.

Talos On Sundren does not have the domain Storm or in NWN2 case those same powers would be the domain of Air. ALmost every single festival ritual used by priest of Talos involves lightning including their greatest one Calling down the thunder.
Also note a prerequiste to become a stormlord is tha the priest must be struck by lightning and survive.

If a priset does not have access to the proepr domains for his diety how is he to perform some of his duties to certain rituals. This portion should aslo be considered by players as well when you are making a cleric without using proper domains. How is your cleric going to perform some of his duties if he does not have the access to the domain of his god.


All that said I think GBX Saulus and all the DM's and designers do an excellant job
with Sundren. I wish them the best in what they do.

Ps: on a side note your lucky they are suggesting you follow rather then I. As I would just strip your cleric of his spells and fail to answer your prayers if you do not believe as your god believes by following his given domains

guys you sound like im not surpossed to ask questions and just accept what's comming kinda like a diktatorship



and btw. i dont play a cleric.. so strip away!

[Caligula]

To me it seems rather ambiguous.

[nickbeat]

Agreed that the ruling is appropriate and should not be debated. However, it does seem possible that domains could be added or removed to the current list.

Is that possible?

[Jaeram]

I do think it would open things up a little if we made a list of 3 or 4 open domains that cleric would be able to can pick form, and then have them choose one from their diety. That's just an opinion thought.

I actually think that would be a really good idea.
I guess the way I saw it was all clerics seem to have the ability to heal, and maybe become exceptional healers, so it seemed like a few domains would be more general, like the healing domain. I guess what I didn't like was that ruling out the other race pantheons and looking at just the Faerunian pantheon, there are 4 deity choices with the healing domain, 2 more cleric oriented (Ilmater, Torm) and 2 more druid oriented (Lurue, Silvanus) I don't think I missed any. It just seemed weird that of all these lawful good, neutral good, etc. alignments that might consider gearing themselves towards healing, that only 4 deities in the largest pantheon actually had that portfolio (if you include the other race pantheons I think it brings the total to 7). On the other hand though there are TONS of deities with other general domains such as travel, law, chaos, good, evil.

Is healing really not considered a general enough domain for it to be more widely available?

I do not disagree with having to use both domains of you deity though, if that's the way it's meant to be played I'm all for it. Obviously the dev's did not choose 'most' of the domains posted (I believe they added a few here and there.) I guess I just think D&D dropped the ball a bit in that aspect.

[sparkeh]

guys you sound like im not surpossed to ask questions and just accept what's comming kinda like a diktatorship

Not at all, you asked the question, you got the answer.

However, I think its fair to say that once you get the answer you do have to accept that if thats the way the dev team want it, then thats the way it is.