New Neverwinter Nights Title?

[Lothoir]

I'm looking forward to use their 'adventure creator' to make printable maps for PnP.

[Saulus]

It looks okay but I think its just going to be another generic MMO. You're not going to have the ability to customize like we can with NWN2.

It's not the same kind of game they are trying to make it seems.

[Zoberraz]

The Neverwinter game's updated website and forums just launched.

http://www.playneverwinter.com/

Me? I'm pretty thrilled to see it. The shown artstyle is growing on me, and the overall quality of what I see looks to me - thus far - like there were a lot of lessons learned since the launch of Star Trek Online that are being applied. Still color me as optimistic.

[Anks]

Fourth edition on the other hand was MADE for a video game. Better balance, better action,

More individual parties. (Inside joke that problably only a few people might get.)

[Kaeldorn]

The sole reason that NWN2 didn't do as well as NWN in terms of a bustling online community is probably that Obsidian didn't provide the community with tools to have custom content download automatically from the get go. I remember when NWN2 was only just released, one complaint resounded above everything else; that it was too much of a hassle to get everything you needed to play on an online server. By the time this 'oversight' was corrected, NWN2 was already 2 years old and all except the die-hards had already left the game far behind. There was nothing wrong with the fomula, but its presentation failed, so to speak.

Now.. what's worse about this new Neverwinter? For one, because the game consists of one centralised PW of sorts, the community will not be able to make any additions that would upset that PW's balance and integrity. That means no custom items, races, classes, spells, abilities, feats, skills, creature models, etc. And I don't expect them to allow scripting at all, if their comments about NWN2 being 'too hard' are any indication. From what I read it looks like the community won't even be able to design its own areas. Only getting premade areas with the ability to put in a few NPCs that have some dialogue that has no consequence and a bunch of monsters to kill with random loot just doesn't seem all that appealing.

If they do make some sort of DM client (which I doubt), it would likely be limited to possessing creatures inside those custom dungeons, and nothing any DM could do would have any lasting impact on the server's storyline. Whatever happens is essentially void once you get out of your dungeon crawl.

So far I've only heard of two MMOs where the company running the game actually put in the effort to 'DM' events on their own server to support roleplaying with a sense of accomplishment. Those being Everquest 1 and Shadowbane. Those initiatives weren't meant to last however, because having to pay DM's to run events inside a game is not cost-efficient. After all, only a small portion of the community gets to be witness of such events and after it's done the work involved might not leave enough tangible effects for other players to enjoy. Particularly if there are numerous servers running the same world that all need to be sychronised in terms of content in order to be as efficient as possible.

What makes the concept of NWN1 and 2 a winner is that it doesn't require the community and development aspect to be cost efficient, and it gives enough freedom to construct wonderful modules like Live Forever (really recommended, that one) and extensive PW's with an ongoing story that can actually be influenced to a certain degree like Sundren.

Essentially, this new NWN sounds exactly like DDO, except it grants the ability to make your own dungeon romps with the complexity of a platformer. And please, do not expect roleplaying to be any more supported than it is on WoW RP servers (with a slightly modified naming policy). Because god forbid anyone would feel alienated by the elitist RP community when he's constantly OOC. Not even to speak of hiring DMs to bring the world to life and wasting man hours on policing people's behaviour.

[Zoberraz]

This aversion to the concept of just having a single world available baffles me. Is Sundren not a single setting in itself? Why would Cryptic's setting be by virtue inferior to Sundren as a setting simply because it might not offer the capability of creating different persistent worlds? Sundren as a locale or the vicinity of Neverwinter... does it really make that much of a difference in the long run as long as people interact and stories are told?

Sundren is a high-quality setting with a staff of DMs whom have applied certain rules and supported the presence of talented roleplayers... but essentially, it's still a group of likeminded people whom came together and formed a community to do what they wanted: roleplay in a D&D setting. Absolutely nothing stops this kind of gathering to be possible in a single-setting game. After all, the existence of persistent world - for the player that doesn't have to lift a finger to create and maintain it - is choosing a certain style of homebrewed campaign that might deliver something closer to what you may want.

Being in the region of Neverwinter, and sharing it with other player-run bands of adventurers hardly sounds damning to me - perhaps it leaves some possible customization out, but it also unifies the playerbase instead of scattering it across many different settings. Thanks to the presence of User Generated Content, you still retain the sort of community followings you could find around the Neverwinter Vault website, with people creating their own adventures in the setting and perhaps even getting a following for them. Anyone remember Adam Miller?

From what I've seen thus far, I think the fundamentals have most of the essential points Neverwinter needs to be. NWN3 couldn't have been more of the same; NWN2 showed that wouldn't work.... so, I find them kind of justified in the different approach - NWN2 hasn't done all that well on the level of online player communities in comparison to its predecessor so some attempt to change the formula could be beneficial for the life of the brand. After all, "NWN2's only redeeming quality besides good graphics was the persistent world people could roleplay on" - that much is not enough a foundation to build a game that would be competitive for our presently harsh, recession-swayed market.

[GholaMan]

To be honest the only redeeming quality besides good graphics that NWN2 has is the persistant worlds where people can RP on. I have never had so many problems with a peice of software than i have had with NWN2. I dont know if the new game is going to be an improvment. If the game developers dont give full customization to players like the toolset then the game will probably blow bug filled chunks. If customization is complete then people will be able to create whatver they want making the game much better.

[Silas North]

They will have a sort of 'divine warrior' though that works like the paladin (mostly melee with a touch of divine power). The biggest difference will be that they will be available for any deity no longer require a LG alignment, but rather an alignment either matching or 'close' to their deity's alignment.

You could think of the good versions of this new class being paladins and the evil versions being blackguards. Given the degree of alterations already capable in the classes in 4e, it was seen as unnecessary to make a 'good' and 'evil' version of this new class.

I will certainly miss the paladin concept, but this was a decent alternative. And it's not like anyone short of a snobby purist would knock you for calling your 4th ed. 'divine warrior' of Torm a paladin.

[Kaeldorn]

Nope. The cool kids scoff at paladins (see WoW), and thus they give fighters a head start.

[Lanemeyer]

No paladins at all?

[Silas North]

I for one am quite eager to see what this turns out to be like. No offense to Obsidian, Sundren, or fans of 3.5, but NVN2's battle system imo is a rather boring, lackluster, poor rendition of pnp (this coming from a guy that does not even like to pnp). The rp potential of PW's and the excellent story of the OC are the only reason to play the game really.

Fourth edition on the other hand was MADE for a video game. Better balance, better action, better everything. And this helps rp a great deal more than many realize.

As for the lore, post-spellplague has its ups and downs. Cutting the god-list down and focusing more on mortals is a great idea (though did they REALLY have to get rid of Helm?! *whimper* At least Oghma, Selune, and Shar are still around.)

[Kaeldorn]

Personally, I do think it sounds rather much like DDO with the option to plug in custom dungeons. Or, since they've not even said that you can actually edit areas.. the same dungeons over and over with different monsters, NPCs and dialogue in them. The option to create is supposed to maintain an active community. All the information released so far seems to point towards that being the case. The only other 'perk' I've seen mentioned is that there will supposedly be an ongoing storyline between areas, but as you will be on different parts of the story than the people you meet, I doubt it'll be very immersive.

[Zoberraz]

News on the Neverwinter game seems to have cooled. Right now, the focus of their facebook/twitter updates is either on starting certain discussions or promoting Salvatore's new Gauntlgrym book.

[Swipht]

It's oblivion DnD style...

[Zoberraz]

Well, I've got a confirmation from one of the neverwinter devs that it's actually hidden dicerolls and not automatics hits.