An idea to encourage.

[Azulfae]

I know the thread got locked due to some kind of falling off topic but I was looking at ideas for a good character build for an evil PC that could create some interest on the server and I soon started to realise that D&D in it's most basic form and it's early beginnings was all about making a Hero and going off to fight evil doers.

If you look, everything did used to be bent towards evil but in more recent times people have started to play evil as players rather than leaving it to be something DM's handle, to be beaten.

It was the fact I noticed that a heck of a lot of the best PrC's and ECL races are geared towards evil, yuanti, drow, duergar, gray orcs, Blackguards, assassins, shadow dancers (If shar worshippers) shadow thieves yada yada.

There is a lot of evil in all that ECL and prestige. A lot of it is restricted here on Sundren and on many other player worlds. You have to do applications and such to be able to play them and as such, a lot of the time these things don't get played.

I was just contemplating what i could get up to as a multiclassed Drow, rogue/warlock/assassin.

or maybe a yuanti arcane trickster

"bah never mind, i'd have to win RPOTM to even apply for that on Sundren!" I thought an then I found myself messing around building an arcane archer wood elf worshipper of solonor thelandira and I thought... oh here we go again another goody.

Before I know it my good PC is nice high level and I'm happy playing it. To make something evil now... nah I'm not a multi PC kind of person. Maybe another time.

You guys have a problem. The good guys have established themselves at the high levels
The evil guys are more likely to die and so they are all generally lower level PC's who have a tough time.
They need some encouragement, they need a little somethign extra for their effort.

Just let people put in applications for evil PC's that require a PrC or ECL race.

It's not much to ask, you can always look at the application and say "No, silly little person go away, that is rediculous." Players can hack that, at least they had a chance to ask. Then they can go think harder and come back with something better.

What is the worst that can happen, you end up with a cult of warlock drow assassins skulking around in hoods... uh.. mission accomplished!

[Zoberraz]

"bah never mind, i'd have to win RPOTM to even apply for that on Sundren!" I thought an then I found myself messing around building an arcane archer wood elf worshipper of solonor thelandira and I thought... oh here we go again another goody.

You just made Maia sad.

[Kaeldorn]

The race restrictions are there in order to keep those races rare, and players who have been recognized as RPotM are awarded the chance to responsibly make such a character that isn't just a cheesy char for the bonus stats and kicks and giggles.

I doubt that's going to change, and all the other races still have plenty of opportunity to be evil and be cool at it.

[TheBrogueadier]

+1 with Kael..

Evil doesn't need a special race, xp bonus, feathered hat (though that may be open to negotiation) to be interesting, fun to play and to survive.

Just needs a good idea behind it and someone willing to play with conviction.

[Arlock Starwind]

I don't know some of us (namly me that I know of) have played the same char over and over and over. almost to the point we could have lived thier life a dozen times over in our heads.

When i first joined sundren i made a drow wizard unknowing i couldn't play drow.. i have ALWAYS played drow. i know them like the back of my hand. from the childhood games of spider-seek and prey all the way to the matriarch high maiden of the clergy in the temple of shar. (or others.)

My point is even though i love alot of rules this server has one of the few I'm not in agreement is. the fact only one new rare person race is made each month and even that is unlikly.. i KNOW FOR A FACT i can play an awesome drow.

one of the reasons why i'm sucking at playing a thayen is becaus i dont know their history .. i know the drow history, lore, etc. i'm not saying i should drop my char but if i could. dammit i'll tie the loop myself to hang Arlock sStarwinds to play a drow. forgo the 35k gold 34 hides and rare spells.

what I truly love about drow society is that i can make my char dark without having to relly try. (My char was a male slave) (he was a thrall to a high priestes) (He was a unfortunete captive of the mind flayers for some time) ( he was on the attck team that was assigned to remove a beholder lair.) (All of the above) Except from my time in ravenloft the underdark was MY realm. no one messed with or questioned me on it. PERIOD.

the fact remains thought that drow are restricted and with so many good rpers on this server my chances of ever playing one is nothing to well very very slim. it's ok though if i wanted to play a drow that bad i would just go back to the campaine mode. (but it would be interesting to see if i am teling the truth or just blowing hot air around.. wouldent it?)

I'll tell you what i'll write up a RP story with a drow char if you think it is worth a shot then i will be more than happy to oblige you with playing him (I would be much happier) but if you feel i need to wait until you think i deserve it well.... (My best thoughts will always be with Arlock Deathrune)

[TheBrogueadier]

There is no point favouring a person simply as they have chosen an evil alignment, as far as the locked prestige classes go they are a reward for people who play their characters well, and become outstanding champions of a cause - This goes for both good and evil.

Of the classes you listed not all are locked: Shadow dancer, Blackguard, Assassin, and (I think.. Could be wrong) Grey Orcs are all currently open to players.

The rest are rewards for playing a character that aspires to and actively works towards, becoming one of the locked classes. It's not like you need access to them from the beginning, and in many ways failing to get a PRC can open up as many RP possibilities as getting one.

Having the races restricted is a very very good thing, for a start it keeps them exceedingly rare, as it should be. How many servers with unrestricted access to ECL races end up with hundreds of them sitting around as common as muck?

The way Sundren approaches restricted classes works well, only the best, most active, players receive them for their work in impressing others. It keeps them memorable: Zack, Hsssaa, The Ice Witch, The Earth Gensai who's name I can't remember, Nocte..

All players who have showed exemplary and alien approaches to playing ECL races and have become unforgeable (apart from names) in each case.

No disrespect to Arlock, but it is very easy to say you are amazing at things and talk a good game. The system in place on Sundren means you have to prove it.

[Verrath]

Well said, Brog.

[Urithrand]

Damn you Equus, I don't have anything insulting to add to that...

[Azulfae]

I'm not saying to open up the restricted races and classes, I'm saying, open up the ability to apply to play one.

I know I'm repeating myself but all you guys have to do is reject them if you feel that the application is not viable.

Suddenly you might find Arlock and a couple of others all playing a small spider worshipping cell in a cave somewhere, looking for an evil organisation to hide within and boom you got a bunch of Evil RP to deal with.

It might be a case of telling a bunch of people, no you can't play this or that, your application is weak and you only want to put certain things together for the power. They don't get to play it do they, they simply get to ask.

Being able to apply doesn't mean 20 duergar by next week charging around, it doesn't mean anything will change much at all. You can be extremely tough on applications if you want. People will know the score.

It just means you can encourage the playing of certain more evil things for a while. Evil is in nature, design, as much as nurture.

[Urithrand]

The reason the PROTM winners only rule was to relieve DM workload having to trawl through dozens of requests for locked races/classes. I've occasionally allowed people to play something out of the ordinary if I know them to be good, solid RPers, but it's not something I intend to open up to anyone who feels like applying. PL is welcome to correct me if he disagrees.

[Azulfae]

No worries then.

Just wanted to throw the idea up there.
If it's just something the DM's don't want to do because of the work involved that's understandable. It would likely mean a good bit of sifting.

It was just a good idea I thought to encourage some evil.

Personally I have something in mind anyhow. This will be the first time I am gonna give evil a shot in a long time. I have been very broken down and demoralised trying to play evil PC's in NWN and i'd outright given up until now. The other post gave me some inspiration that maybe the sort of thing I used to play could stand a chance on a server like this. I don't need any free levels, I don't need any fancy perks, all i need is the chance to have a thought and carry it out, for better or worse.

[Sweet Spirit]

The reason the PROTM winners only rule was to relieve DM workload having to trawl through dozens of requests for locked races/classes. I've occasionally allowed people to play something out of the ordinary if I know them to be good, solid RPers, but it's not something I intend to open up to anyone who feels like applying. PL is welcome to correct me if he disagrees.

One post, just one post, a reccomendation not to open any restricted races for evil players.
Even though I actually want one of the restricted races alot [not even a fancy one] I still think Sundren was very smart with this, I can give you an example.

There was an NWN1 server on that I played on a long time ago, and it had a bunch of subraces. The strange ones were restricted - though all you had to do was apply for them, Even this wasn't enough. Know why? We got a Zoo effect. Everyone was running around with wings or something.
And it never went away. never. Here in sundren i've never even freaking HEARD of a Genasi, only specail race i've seen were tieflings, because we all probably got a little aquainted with a tiefling . Anyway While thats not exactly good, its sort of better than a zoo effect.

Then again, the DMs were a little bit too lienient on allowing people into the races, the numbers of people with wings or tails or fancy skin was amazingly high. Anyway, thats just a little personal experience with 'apply for race'

All I can say is pay attention to RoptM to get people running around with restricted races, really. [Aka vote and tally votes.]

And yeah, a wee bit off topic my post is, sowwie XD

[Azulfae]

sowwie XD

aaaAAAAGH!!! *stabs*

[Phantom Lamb]

This is a server rule that won't change. Thanks for the suggestion though folks