An Evil Presence

[DurinRustbeard]

I think the DM's stimulating the evil that exists presently would be a huge help. Evil characters in an of themselves have much more limited resources (and fewer allies) than good guys, thus making it harder to level, and harder to get any attention. Slanke was rather well known for being pro-evil and I liked that about him. I know any good dm has to be fair and balanced, but a little personal dm lovin might do a lot of good to the existing evil PC's.

[Duerric]

Hi,

by my opinion there's too many of so called "good characters", but they don't act like a good ones. Why not to use the power of redistribute alignment points?

Players should think - the world is not White or Black. World is Grey. If some known evil character kicks the beggar's ass it's an evil act, if the good paladin does the same what is it? When the reason was the same? Good act? No. But players look OOCly at it like at the evil and good action, instead of evil and evil action, or neutral and neutral action.

In the past the greatest leaders were the "Greatest Bastards", they've ruled the world, not for good, for power. DM should try to use politics too. In the name of the state they could try to use the good characters to act by their will and let them decide - are you lawful good paladin, then you have to decide - your sense for good or your sense for loyalty.

If in the Sundren's government are just good fellows, then I have to say wonderful! Ideal world! But I doubt .

Duerric, future King of Universe

[Arlock Starwind]

I think the DM's stimulating the evil that exists presently would be a huge help. Evil characters in an of themselves have much more limited resources (and fewer allies) than good guys, thus making it harder to level, and harder to get any attention. Slanke was rather well known for being pro-evil and I liked that about him. I know any good dm has to be fair and balanced, but a little personal dm lovin might do a lot of good to the existing evil PC's.

Yes Yes Yes.. i have to admit i would love a little help if no one here has noticed i HAVE to go into viridale alone and quest.. hell i had to kill that Gob chief all by myself (he was a a pain.) i'm a friggin wizard fro cryin out loud. i should get like 800 bonus ex for killing him alone.. well not relly no rp value in it.

There is however incidents that i have done incredible things for a low lvl char. (kill a werewolf with quick thinking and avoiding further injury to anyone, saving the life of 2 dark priests, Holding my ground ageinst insurmountable odds.. losing but hey i said i was smart not wise.

well the point is the last time i got any bonus DM rp exp was on my very first event when i got 200 XP for saying (It's arcane) on a alarm magic.

I'm not saying our dm's are slacking or favoring good aligned people but it's relly is hard for me to sustain my char when he is vastly inexperianced and alone alot. (experianced in life not lvl) I try to play the char i have created.. a young arrogant prideful pompus very intelegent necromancer. not to mention Naive.

I'm not asking for a handout. Your doing alot by trying to make it safe for me to go into areas safe thats great but peridan/sarah/some-others usually keeps to the forest entrance and i stick to the meet or muckspear. the real problem is I am too stupid to wear a disguise when i go into town or change my clothes.

As for trying to be smarter well I could but then I would be using my Own skills and not my char's. I guess I could reason it as he thinks it would be a good idea to change his name or eventually have to go into deeper hiding (even though it's ageinst his code and beliefe in the law but thats been breaking recently anyway.)

I rather enjoy making fools of the higher lvl people around the server and i'm happy that my char is able to get away/win. ageinst a superior lvl player But then again It would be interesting to see me when my char is high lvl think of the antaganism then.

(Arlock plans to use a ritual and turn into a lich, everyone has 48 hours to find him and kill him) ya'know.

[Phantom Lamb]

I thought about having "recruiting drives" for organizations that cause conflict. I think that's a good idea, whoever brought that up several replies ago.

This thread is sorta degenerating (surprise!) into "what is evil?" No worries, I'll take that suggestion and move on.

What would the community think about giving free levels to PC's we consider to be good evil players? Would it cheapen your personal leveling experience, or would you appreciate having a challenging foe?



Arlock, as for your situation--
I appreciate that you're staying in character on him. Really, I think it's commendable to have flaws and make them wind up screwing your character, knowing OOCLY that you could avoid them. If that's your purpose, then bravo! But, he still likely won't have a very long lifespawn

[Ethelo]

Cheapen! I think.

[Iso]

What would the community think about giving free levels to PC's we consider to be good evil players? Would it cheapen your personal leveling experience, or would you appreciate having a challenging foe?

That makes it unfair for the Chaotics and Neutrals (both Good and True) who still have to work to get anywhere, while not being a part of the Good vs Evil conflict because they mind their own business.

[CorneliusVonRichten]

I don't like the idea.

[Duerric]

I thought about having "recruiting drives" for organizations that cause conflict. I think that's a good idea, whoever brought that up several replies ago.

This thread is sorta degenerating (surprise!) into "what is evil?" No worries, I'll take that suggestion and move on.

What would the community think about giving free levels to PC's we consider to be good evil players? Would it cheapen your personal leveling experience, or would you appreciate having a challenging foe?

I don't think that's the way. Try to correct the "goodies". If the character is so good, why the player wants to end all of his action by fight, which will for sure end by death?

If I'm good, I should also act like good character.

[Product of Void]

Levels, gold, classes, none of that matters what is Rped is mattered.

Free levels would be cool long as no free gear or Custom dm gear seeing everyone can aquire levels. Long as the levels do not exceed what others can aquire so no level 20 evil dudes.

As for Veritas no not evil, but if you get two folk who are in your way to destroy each other all the better.

Another idea for levels would be perhaps xp for rp stories a set amount only attianable once a week or something say one level per X stories or something. And no stories will exceed the cap. So any stories past level 15 gain no xp.

Extra xp sure would help my creepy old guy become creepier too. I have plans for him *muahaha*. I actually expect him to eventually be perma'd but I hope folks enjoy the twist.

Another idea.

Who wants a nemesis? what kind do you want.....*waves sign will cause suffering for stags*

Perhaps folks can volunteer to create nemesis for other players with the idea in mind of loosing or eventually perma'n the charactor. I have seen a few folk do that before in player ran events very successful and intresting.

[Kaeldorn]

Just want to state my personal opinion on a few of the given suggestions.

I'm all for DM's supporting the evil characters some, but I also agree with PL that if you want to be evil you're going to have to play it well and smart. In the past there have been times when DM's were constantly cutting 'team evil's' slack, making up rules/ways out for them on the fly. That led to an atmosphere where more evil was present, but there was barely any conflict at all. Simply because the good guys didn't get any real chances to counteract without disregarding society's order (and thus ending up in jail). With evil constantly having its butt covered, the trying and failing got stale.

Please do not start the whole 'the world is grey' argument. D&D has defined alignment and they just happen to be based on western society's values. In D&D's system, intention determines if an action is good or evil, and regard/disregard for a structured society makes you lawful or chaotic. LG characters will not be playing against their alignment when refusing to uphold laws they disagree with unless they vowed to uphold them in the first place. The lawful part there only sets in stone that rather than rebelling against it like an anarchist, they would try to structurally change it or passively express their disagreement or even undermine it with the right tools. In that aspect, LG and LE are much the same. The only difference is intention. That said, a paladin is not going to kick around a beggar unless he has a really, really good reason to do so. 'he popped evil on my detection!' won't cut it. That just makes you a Blackguard in disguise. The inquisitor types tend to be neutral at best, usually evil. Even if they work for a good organisation.

I agree completely with Rhifox' ideas, but with a mix of Arlock's. Evil needs to nestle in and take important positions without walking around with a tag on their backs, and work towards a certain aim. There should always be some kind of weakness (the same goes for good), it just doesn't have to be immediately obvious.

[Iso]

I'd like to reword and add my own piece to what Duerric has stated.

Evil should not be stupid and neither should the good, IE going into lowbie areas and harassing the Evil characters trying to scrape by. The problem does not lie with the module's design or the Evil characters who should be free to be themselves out in the hostile wilderness areas and adventure zones, but rather how the Good are allowed to take control and have free reign.

It is a failing of the Law in turning a blind eye towards these independent organizations of crusaders who do not have any judicial backing, but still are allowed to execute their own brands of justice on law-abiding citizens taking fair right to peaceful passage and business.

It is also potentially further a failing of the Exigo to provide defense of their business partners while on Exigo soil.

Where is the Law to defend said Evil characters in a place where the registered worship of Evil Deities is allowed? Lawful Good can be in opposition of Lawful Neutral. The government does not need to bow down before the Triumvirate, quite the contrary.

[Rhifox]

I don't think you need free levels. Because strength of arms should not be what defines evil, unless that evil person happens to be a brute or minion who depends on his ability to survive by his combat capability. If you NEED a high level, to defend against good, that means you've blown your cover, which means you probably did something stupid already.

Smart, successful evil can be level 1.

[Duerric]

Please do not start the whole 'the world is grey' argument.

But the players act like so. Don't you tell me, that each your action is good, is evil, is neutral or lawful evil.

That said, a paladin is not going to kick around a beggar unless he has a really, really good reason to do so. 'he popped evil on my detection!' won't cut it.

Again, but the players act so. And they do not keep it for themselves. Most of the "goodies" go and tell it to the others - look, that guy is evil! And how the others react? Woow! He's evil, i won't talk to him, I won't even travel with him, because I'm good.

[Kaeldorn]

Iso... as far as I'm aware, all the things mentioned there are already covered. Most of the seasoned good guys have learned the hard way. Most of us have been in jail

I think the only issue is, as you state, people going into 'hunting zones' when DM's aren't online and playing the vigilante without repercussion. You can simply report the culprits if you witness such a thing happening, and the government isn't going to always back the good, I assure you.

Take action yourself, don't 'expect' everything to fall in place if you don't do anything about it as an evil char.

Proven Banites and other wanted characters are an exception. If you portray yourself as a source of trouble to the government, then you're free game.


Also.. not in favor of free levels. That'll just end with having lots of people making evil alts without a real backing story or goal to them. It might only serve to spawn extra goons for the dedicated.

[c2k]

That makes it unfair for the Chaotics and Neutrals (both Good and True) who still have to work to get anywhere, while not being a part of the Good vs Evil conflict because they mind their own business.

I agree with this, as my barbarian is pretty much a loner because she doesn't share all the views of both good and evil PCs and she doesn't have peers that would support her views. Add in the deity factor, it becomes a lonely world for even the neutral PCs.