An Evil Presence

[Duerric]

And one addon - why I play beggar, thief and a criminal? Why is it in my "examine" window? Because if I would play noble, evil character, using politics etc. the most of the good character would act with me like with rubbish, in a few days everybody would know, that I'm evil (yee .. detect evil, I love it - one usess it and tells it to the others, so ..). When I play beggar and a thief the cards are on the table from the beginning and I don¨t need to discuss with others: "how you could know that?" etc.

[Duerric]

And the last response - I can imagine to play a character, who would like to be the head of Triumvirate and the greatest bastard in the town. But my expierences with "OOC" rumors and news do not allow me to waste my time in this direction.

And yes, there's few of the clever evil characters. If someone is clever, I don't think I know about him . I bet on Cirion, I think he's the evil bastard preparing the palace revolution under the mask of damned good soul .

[Arlock Starwind]

Well if anything i think a good concilation prize for evil chare's if they die re'roll a char for the sole purpose of being a rival/nemasis. not keeping anything but you can say(he was my brother/sister/friend/student/master/anything else you can think of.)

and I relly agree on that post RP exp for char. i mean i wrote for days religiously and i felt alot of people dident like it. then found out alot of people loved it.

P.S. does anyone want me to start writing my old PnP stories on a new thread in Whatever? i have some relly good ones.. like the story of billy the goblin.. who never reelly does anything.. but you'll find out why..

[Product of Void]

I understand your issue with the detect evil, but its there. And I doubt its going anywhere. The problem is not its existance but how its used.

How many good stories talk of a evil charactor regaining their heart and helping the good guy. (think of Vader tossing the emporer down the shaft).

I know there could be a code someone follows of not traveling with evil etc. But there was a great book about a kingdom seeking to remove evil by detecting ill will. Almost drove folks insane. Due to everyone has bad thoughts every day.

Good should lead by example, and seek to help others. If someone is evil or known evil distrust is expected. But if no deeds to their ill will they should be helped and maybe good will trump.

If Luke had treated vader like the paladins treat evil here, Vader would be telling him to "kiss it" while waving his backside. And luke would be extra crispy.

Levels don't just help in combat. If you are evil and trying to hide to spread rumors or some such, having 5 skill in disguise really does not help.

Perhaps a good RP reward would be a level 15 disposable. A charactor set to create trouble and possibly be a nemesis for a set group but eventually will be perma'd.

Xp for stories works its intresting too, just would have to across the board for all charactors with a few restrictions. Y stories a week, only 1 reward a month maybe, etc. Staff would have to hash it out.

[TamurtheLame]

I play a sacred fist of Ilmater and I play his alignment, which is lawful neutral. Hell, if you want to be evil, then by means, be evil, just don't break the damn law! Now, that is kind of bare bones for lawful neutral, but my point is that neutral players need to actually play their alignment and this would probably be a boon to the whole server instead of everyone running to the evil side.

In saying that, I think having a recruitment drive for evil might be a good thing; however, I think it would be unfair to give free levels to evil. What may be a good thing is maybe for the DMs to turn a blind eye if a couple evil characters or just one is somewhere by themselves trying to get a few levels so they can compete in the events with higher level people.

Although, if you play evil and play it real good, depending on your character and class, sometimes people have no idea who you really are and you can survive for a long time without any conflict but what you cause in confusion and politics.

Bottom line, recruitment drive and maybe let them alone sometimes for leveling purposes?

[Ghostman]

1. Level 1 characters can be smart and successfully evil...against other level 1 characters. The reason is, RP in the game is skill-based...Bluff, Diplomacy, Intimidate, Sense Motive, Gather Information. You need to level to keep pace with other characters, otherwise every bluff will be called and every intimidate will be ignored. Therefore: successful evil must be smart and must also level.

*Example fictional character for the rest of this post: Jarlaxle of Menzoberranzan, in the sense that he is a selfish evil whose primary role lies in manipulation, double-dealing, and arranging matters for his clients.

2. I don't see many opportunities at all for evil characters to level. You can pick up a few XPs from quests, but I don't see how I'm supposed to play something like our example character and still advance. He's simply not going to be interested in killing goblins for an Exigo bounty, or tracking down a gnoll chief for the Legion. He's not going to have any legitimate interest in grinding XPs in the way Sundren has been set up. If you make an evil character with combat ability, you can pull the ol' "pretend I'm a good character" and get in on that action, but that will get very tiresome very quickly. So if you play your character legitimately and realistically, your only XPs will come from the occasional scripted quest and that 30 XPs per 10 minutes thinger. Yeah, there's DM awards, but I've been on the server for about 2 months now and have never received a DM XP award. Not whining. Just saying.

3. Therefore: I think an ecouragement for people to play evil characters (outside of simply giving them free levels, which I think would cause a lot of hard feelings and would not be a great idea) would be to offer other routes for advancement. Perhaps more scripted quest lines specifically for evil characters, since they probably won't fit in with the mainstream very well, or an increased XP amount on that 10-minute timer for "evil" alignments (dunno if that's even possible, just brainstorming). Dunno how to do it and be fair, but I think that's a hurdle to be overcome.

With that said...I created an evil non-combat character today. I shall try playing him, but I'm not going to have him run around killing goblins to level because...you know...that's sort of dumb for the type of character he is. My plan is to try to find a higher-level evil person and attach myself to him like a remora to a shark's butt, and see how it plays out.

[Kangleton]

I like evil, but here it is -- the problem therein!

Evil cannot win. Sure, evil can triumph in PvP, but when it comes down to it, will the Banites ever conquer Sundren city? Will the Veritas ever occupy the government? Will a band of Cyricists ever nuke the world? No. Why? Probably because it contradicts the main plot of Sundren. I know there is a storyline intended, and I know bits and pieces of it -- maybe more than I should, given that it hasn't really started yet. Be that as it may, as much as a good story is appreciated, it bears the consequence of making certain things "set in stone", so to speak. If one faction plays a vital role in the Sundren storyline, it is very likely that the given faction isn't going to be conquered until it is supposed to be conquered, even if a band of PC's has a plan to make it happen prematurely.

If a character aspires to decimate the Triumvirate, he might borderline succeed, but never entirely. Why? Triumvirate is probably a necessary component to the advancement of Sundren's overarching storyline. There isn't enough mobility in the concepts composing Sundren to allow evil to succeed, unless that success is already part of the main plot of the server.

Now, this isn't necessarily a bad thing. Some direction for the server and its factions is a good thing, but since most people are utterly unaware of the direction, their actions often won't coincide with it. People will hold onto goals that are just blatant contradictions to Sundren's plot, and therefore, their failure is necessary to ensure the plot can survive.

At least, that is the way I had always understood it, in the days of my evil exploits, and in the days of knowing things I shouldn't have known. Perhaps it's all obsolete, by this point in my deceased career.

[Iso]

Another idea to toss out.

Allow Players of Evil Characters to post OOC reports on their RP exploits to corrupt and warp, including relevant screen shots, testimonies by those involved, and then allow the community to vote for whether it deserves a reward or not. Positive testimonies from those involved count towards DM judgment and if the vote reaches a certain count then it is decided to grant or withhold a reward.

That way you have our peers deciding if they'd like to reward Evil Roleplay or not, without overdoing anything as we all *know* it tends to be tougher on Evil characters who do not go out and bash everything. Anyone who would not agree with the exp being granted could simply vote no and be done with it, even if they do not read the post.

Once again, just an idea for consideration.

[Urithrand]

If I'm honest, I didn't read most of this thread because peoples' arguments got a bit long winded and repetetive so excuse me if I double up on any points here (I am tired, forgive me).

My problem is with Good characters. Not in the way they choose to play good, but in the way they choose to counterract evil.

• Good players seem to have an obsession with assuming everything is their business. None of them EVER adopt the "well it's really not for me to say..." attitude.
• Good players almost *always* play character who are SO BLOODY PERFECT that they are beyond reproach. "Fear of death? PAH! What's that! I shall throw myself in front of that train if it's necessary!"
• Good players all think they are authorised to arrest people...
• Good players will almost exclusively stick their noses into stuff best left to the authorities (NPCs)
• Good players have for the most part done everything, seen everything, know everything, and thus the RP has got so stale that when an evil player appears, they suck to it like a leech for the sheer possibility that there might be 5 minutes of entertainment. Then they kill/arrest it and thus counterract their own best interests.

These are just a few of my bugbears. I don't think people play evil because when they do, the good guys basically gang up on them, and they're not allowed any fun.

My request is not just for more bad guys, but for people to play good more realistically. 90% of the human race would fall under the "good" category if they were genuinely forced into a D&D alignment, but how many would really act that selflessly when presented with a so called "evil?"

Please try to remember, "Good" does not in ANY WAY mean "Perfect"

[Kaeldorn]

Actually, most people would fall under the neutral category. But that's besides the point

I'm sort of getting the idea I've been playing with other good characters than everyone else here, though...

[Arlock Starwind]

So we genuinly struck a major topic here today and the question is how to best advance evil withouy OPing the hell out of them so good can't win.. now I play evil, I may not play the best evil but i have a good 10Y long streak of evil PnP. everything from poinseninf babies to kill a bandit leader to blocking a river to stop a town from hiding behind it;s barracade. being evil is more than just that. being evil.

(this is going to get long so i sugest you got to the next post)

Now I do agree theres has to be a reason your char is evil. my usual one is because he is seeking power to correct a long running problem that is going to smack everyone in the face someday. (IE I want to kill the king because secretly he is insaine and no one but me knows and i'm a cold blooded murderer who wants to be king.) so evil for the sake of evil and evil intent.

There will always be a good/evil conflict. I ENJOY THAT! with the utmost passion. not ONCE have i played a campaine and either not stabbed a friend or got back-stabbed (even now Deacon sold me out but i love him more for that.)

Now to the real problem and core of this thread. i just had to get that out. I think we evil should earn our xp true. but as we all know evil gets left alone alot and fends for it'self. hell i died 7 times on lvl 6 getting to lvl 7. I know your pain believe me.

The sugestion I am about to make is a bit OP but in the best interest of the server. I think we should hold a vote and pick the top 5-7 best evil char's and give them a perm no-ex loss upon death.. yes I know but this is just an idea. I'm not saying immortal if the char is Perma thats diffrent. but Lessen the punishment for death for evil would help tremedously. and it would allow (good) to kick our ass and if not they get a worse fate for not being prepaired to take us on.

The only other thing I can think of is for dm's to run Evil session nights instead of good ones. (IE i killed a werewolf in cold blood when someone tried to save her and i got good points) i'm not saying thats bad but i would have gotten good points no matter what. lets try a scenario where no matter what you do, if you take action you will recieve bad points (a robery or slaying traveling merchants) you guys are creative turn up those juices.

[Captain Caveman]

Edit- Urithrand is the wing beneath my wings. He summed up something that has been bothering me perfectly.

I think the "Evil Only " quest idea has merit. Either scripted or on the fly DM quests. Not nessassarily for the XP/Reward( although we wont say no) but more as a way to kinda solidify the charactors in a " We matter and accomplished something " kind of way. No matter how trivial it is, feeling like you made some minor impact on the world makes a difference.

I really, really miss the group of Baneites we had for a bit. That had the making of a very strong evil group with some outstanding RP that could have been built around.

[Phantom Lamb]

Well you're the whole problem I was getting at Kael. I was TRYING to disguise it, but yeah, this thread is really targeted at you You smell!

[Kaeldorn]

Bleh
I'll take a bath tomorrow morning. But I don't think I'll script anything to favor any specific evil characters over all the others.

[Arlock Starwind]

And here i thought it was me ...(takes a few steps to the left)

So anyway can we expect anything to come out of this thread. just a few hours it seems to be spreading like wildfire.