RP is more than just do or don't

[Donegal]

I think one thing that people don't often consider when playing Evil characters is that true, out in the open Evil doesn't exist in places where there are laws, or good individuals (hell even Neutral and other Evil people) that have any power whatsoever.

If you harm or steal from someone, anyone, they are going to want retribution. If they have any power, friends or money then you are pretty much SOL. Most of the characters in Sundren have some of the above, if not all.

In our RL society the nutjob gunman who rolls into a McDonalds and kills a few dozen people is taken down quickly, brutally and with the general support of the public.

The career thief is given very severe prison time, even if he didn't actually hurt anyone else.

Evil that flourishes, in general, does so with the tacit support of the masses or those in power. Dictators can be evil because no one can stop them. Politicians or Corporate execs can do things we would consider evil because loopholes in the law or the current power structure protects them.

You can't just run around in any society being 'EVIL', and an online RP world is no different.

I don't think there are an overabundance of 'goody-two-shoes' characters in Sundren, but Neutrals and even other Evils will band together to stop an obvious threat, like the guy who jumps you in the wilderness, raises a horde of undead to attack the town, or steals from you. Not because they are fighting some glorious war against all evil doers, but because they are just as likely to be a victim of 'Evil' as the Paladin who lives next store.

[Ichbin]

In our RL society the nutjob gunman who rolls into a McDonalds and kills a few dozen people is taken down quickly, brutally and with the general support of the public.

The career thief is given very severe prison time, even if he didn't actually hurt anyone else.

I beg a differ. I actually think thats what society wants you to think (pls, just bear with my anti-social behavior, lol).
Im pretty sure theres ALOT of ppl who get away with alot, its just not publicised. What about serial-killers who dont get caught till they confess, or the robber who hit 12-13 stores before they actually get em'?
Like I said, forgive my jaded view on society, but I disagree with everything being hunky dory.

[Ethereal Edge]

This isn't real life, regardless. This is Faerun.

[Sarina]

This may be somewhat off from whats been said, but I just wanted to emphasize to those who are experts at RPing to be patient with us that are just starting. I'm sure I'm not the only one who has transitioned to something casual like Guild Wars or Everquest and been blown away by how much role-playing is actually involved. It takes awhile for us RP n00bs to adapt so try to be patient with us if we seem like we're out of RP guidelines. I'm still trying to get used to this whole "walking" thing or greeting people as I walk past them. Also, constructive criticism is always welcome via tell...emphasis on constructive.

[Grigori]

Noone is an expert in roleplay. You create a character in your mind, you figure out the best way to BE that character (not play the character), and you interact with others who are doing the same thing. There is no right or wrong way to roleplay as long as it fits within action restrictions such as the pickpocket rule in Sundren. Just treat the world as if you live there and are interacting with the people. You don't HAVE to say hi to everyone you meet. In fact, I have one character who would rather watch you twitch on a torture table instead of say a hearty hello... On my barbarian, I walk if in armor, I run if wearing casual hide or cloth. Everyone has been a n00b at one point, so don't worry if you feel like someone is roleplaying circles around you... they are simply doing what you are doing, but in a different style. Just enjoy yourself. It's a passtime... a hobby... a game... Enjoy it and those around you... that's all that is required.

[undeadsteak]

O_o, I am!

[Donegal]

I beg a differ. I actually think thats what society wants you to think (pls, just bear with my anti-social behavior, lol).
Im pretty sure theres ALOT of ppl who get away with alot, its just not publicised. What about serial-killers who dont get caught till they confess, or the robber who hit 12-13 stores before they actually get em'?
Like I said, forgive my jaded view on society, but I disagree with everything being hunky dory.

You just proved my point in both of those examples. My post said that Evil cannont flourish 'out in the open', which neither of those cases are.

Now, if 3 or 4 people witness the serial killer eating the neighborhood kids, I bet it ends pretty damn quick.

Or if the robber tries to hit a 7-Eleven when the clerk is armed with a 12 gauge and a will to use it, the thief's career ends quickly.

So, to translate to our game here, you can't attack a player in front of his comrades and expect to not be hunted, nor rob someone who is a 6' tower of muscle in full plate armor and itching to carve you up with his sword; and have a good chance of seeing tomorrow...

[Ethereal Edge]

Evil is subversive, even if you want to try to translate evil to crime in real life. Donegal has a good point. If you're going to rob someone, at least wear a freakin' mask or something. If you're going to kill someone, don't give them your name, or offer a false name. Simple things like that make it subversive, seriously.

[Glare Bear]

Hey Garfaldo weve known each other a long time. My personal take on it. The last server i played on there was this honorable mention for good roleplay thread. What a waste of time in my opinion. I look for people who progress or are at least trying to roleplay, not the absolute best players out there. (Though obviously i wouldn't discredit their abilities).

Did you know gwen was neutral evil? This only meant actual murder just before I left the server... But in the 6 months or whatever that i played her she did maybe a dozen evil acts. She was nice to just about everyone, whether it was fake or not. (Hey when I've rolled 114 on perform before I think the acting bit is fine.) Aside from the eventual murdering of 20 innocent people in the streets my biggest actual crime was stealing paws from an elderly sick woman... I even convinced her subtly to actually give him to me when confronted even though it was obvious she needed him more.

Just my two cents. PS where on earth is lance?!

[Garfaldo]

Hey Garfaldo weve known each other a long time. My personal take on it. The last server i played on there was this honorable mention for good roleplay thread. What a waste of time in my opinion. I look for people who progress or are at least trying to roleplay, not the absolute best players out there. (Though obviously i wouldn't discredit their abilities).

Did you know gwen was neutral evil? This only meant actual murder just before I left the server... But in the 6 months or whatever that i played her she did maybe a dozen evil acts. She was nice to just about everyone, whether it was fake or not. (Hey when I've rolled 114 on perform before I think the acting bit is fine.) Aside from the eventual murdering of 20 innocent people in the streets my biggest actual crime was stealing paws from an elderly sick woman... I even convinced her subtly to actually give him to me when confronted even though it was obvious she needed him more.

Just my two cents. PS where on earth is lance?!

Wow! Are you talking about Amia? Dunno where Lance is... haven't seen him around since the start of NWN2. I didn't know Gwen was so evil at all! But I sorta was expecting her to do something Was the last server you played on Frontier too?

[Glare Bear]

Yea I did say hi to you there. In nwn1 I went from amia to gatecrashers to some beta server called realms of ghamede. Then on nwn2 was frontier to here. My character on frontier was Olivia Zadhi, a character i played on 3 of those servers in wildly different incarnations. I'm putting her to rest though in favor of a more sane character.

[GodBeastX]

Robbery is often a chaotic act, not an evil one. Robin Hood, for example, was not evil. He was chaotic. Robbing maliciously is evil. Holding up the poor gas station clerk for the keys to the 50$ in the safe is Chaotic Evil.

As I said in a post a long while ago, it's all about the line of continuity in the storyline of Sundren. If you flow too far out from it, you find yourself in "trouble".

A thief robbing someone in an Alley is closer to the line than a thief running out in front of a guard and cutting someone down, making off with their coin purse.

A murderer who waits til the person is asleep in their home and sneaks in through a window is closer to the line than a guy who just throws fireballs in the middle of city streets.

The same goes for good people. A good person who waits for evil to leave it's den is closer to the line than a good person who marches into a black fortress alone demanding the lord's surrender.

In truth, I have more problem lately with good/neutral people's actions than Evil. Most evils I have seen working very quietly, and mysteriously. One even took an NPC of mine behind a building in a section of town we put no guards to jack him. He didn't succeed but he got buku exp for that.

Good, however, tend to face overwhelming odds and act like they are far superior for some reason. That bothers me to no end. Sometimes I really want to just get realistic on someone but I think they'd complain I'm smiting them. What do I mean by realistic?

We as DM's tend to send in creatures to a battle in small doses and try to balance it against the party so the party isn't wiped. However, there's enough Mossclaw in Viridale for me to just go "Here, have 50 at once" and it'd be completely realistic, or in the ghost caves have 30 ghosts spawn on a person at once and it'd be realistic, or the goblins just to send a wave at someone who just killed their chieftain.

These are Dens of evil as much as port Avanthyr is a Den of good. One murderer taking hostages is going to eventually die in the city, so why shouldn't one good guy in a bastion of darkness meet his end? Mostly because we tone it down from realism so people can level

This is where the frustration with grinding comes into play. It deadens people's sense of what they're actually facing. I see posts with "I killed 500 mossclaw!" Well yeah, they came 5 to 10 at a time no doubt. If I spawn 500 will you survive? Or people bragging "I've killed over 2000 goblins in Sharahan" Well yeah, because groups of 4 spawn, should I make the entire community of Goblins get you?

And this is where it takes a player having respect for what they are really facing. I've been very very close at times just to showing people exactly what they're facing when I hear things like "Pffft, it's just Goblins" or "Bleah, Gnolls don't scare me".

[Glare Bear]

Actually in the case of the dog I would argue the theft was evil. It was not an act without purpose. She was being selfish. The dog was actually a pc and quite lovable. Robin hood while chaotic wouldn't randomly steal someone's dog. He was chaotic good as a whole and robbed from the rich to give to the poor. Anyway back to the point all I did was have the blacksmith forge a new name tag, with a brand new name that had nothing to do with him and pretended with all the other players he had been my dog all along with simple deception. Nobody thought twice because I came across as such a nice person. A dm eventually made a sick old lady claiming to be the dog's real owner. Even given that my character lied right to her face pretending still the dog was hers and then the confrontation happened. Then it turned into manipulation.

To quote the description of neutral evil I think it fits, except for the last part I guess about them being pure evil.

Neutral Evil, "Malefactor"

A neutral evil villain does whatever she can get away with. She is out for herself, pure and simple. She sheds no tears for those she kills, whether for profit, sport, or convenience. She has no love of order and holds no illusion that following laws, traditions, or codes would make her any better or more noble. On the other hand, she doesn?t have the restless nature or love of conflict that a chaotic evil villain has.
Some neutral evil villains hold up evil as an ideal, committing evil for its own sake. Most often, such villains are devoted to evil deities or secret societies.
Neutral evil is the most dangerous alignment because it represents pure evil without honor and without variation.

The major deception of this character was simply being nice to people as friends. She did whatever she wanted so long as she wouldn't get caught except for that one killing spree which was just a few well placed confusion spells in a tightly packed street.

[GodBeastX]

Actually in the case of the dog I would argue the theft was evil. It was not an act without purpose. She was being selfish. The dog was actually a pc and quite lovable. Robin hood while chaotic wouldn't randomly steal someone's dog. He was chaotic good as a whole and robbed from the rich to give to the poor. Anyway back to the point all I did was have the blacksmith forge a new name tag, with a brand new name that had nothing to do with him and pretended with all the other players he had been my dog all along with simple deception. Nobody thought twice because I came across as such a nice person. A dm eventually made a sick old lady claiming to be the dog's real owner. Even given that my character lied right to her face pretending still the dog was hers and then the confrontation happened. Then it turned into manipulation.

To quote the description of neutral evil I think it fits, except for the last part I guess about them being pure evil.

Neutral Evil, "Malefactor"

A neutral evil villain does whatever she can get away with. She is out for herself, pure and simple. She sheds no tears for those she kills, whether for profit, sport, or convenience. She has no love of order and holds no illusion that following laws, traditions, or codes would make her any better or more noble. On the other hand, she doesn’t have the restless nature or love of conflict that a chaotic evil villain has.
Some neutral evil villains hold up evil as an ideal, committing evil for its own sake. Most often, such villains are devoted to evil deities or secret societies.
Neutral evil is the most dangerous alignment because it represents pure evil without honor and without variation.

The major deception of this character was simply being nice to people as friends. She did whatever she wanted so long as she wouldn't get caught except for that one killing spree which was just a few well placed confusion spells in a tightly packed street.

I was speaking generally, not about the case of this situation specifically. Simply taking from someone else something that doesn't belong to you to begin with is not an evil act was my point. People may not like it, but that's the lawful part of their minds, not the good part.

[Glare Bear]

Oh my apologies then. I don't read much in terms of setting, as you can tell my bio up there is a smattering of names of places I actually know. I think I used almost all of them I do read things like alignment descriptions because they're important to roleplaying your character, but I did in fact think this was directed at me, sorry again.

Theft could be justified under any aligment, a lawful good character would steal a lichs phylactary if it could not be destroyed.