What spells can detect people hiding in open spaces?

[DurinRustbeard]

I ask this obviously for the sneaky Veront who has been wandering around in hide mode, and people cannot possibly make a throw to beat his hide/move silent. So I cast Dragon Sight. ((Dragon sight has no real effect at all but the spell says it gives blindsight, see invis, darkvision, low light, etc.. the sight of a dragon..))

So can I see someone hiding with this spell or do I still have to rely on the spot skill? I mean obviously since dragon sight doesnt (In game) let me see invis, or give me darkvision like the spell claims the PC will not appear to me in game.., but for RP purposes.. can I see him? Just a curious thing I've been wondering of late..

Also if they are speaking aloud and standing in an open area, but the hide skill doesnt take into account the surroundings, aka bright and sunny day, or I have a magical light over my head.. etc.. for all intencive purposes are they impossibly undetectable?

Sorry if this all seems newb questions, but me and Ver were rping and I didnt know if my dragonsight lets me see hiding people.

[Phantom Lamb]

Well, from an RP standpoint, he needs cover to be sneaking. He can "move through crowds," but that obviously wouldn't apply in many situations. While there are NPCs in the world that we don't physically place there (it would drain the server), limits need to be applied to where and when crowds would gather.

Unfortunately, we rely on rogues to use stealth mode responsibly, and not many stick to the PnP rules. During combat with NPCs, I don't care if rogues take advantage of the game engine and stealth like invisibility, but I'll never allow them to do it during an event I'm running or something I'm overseeing. It's a pet peeve of mine

As for Dragon Sight / See Invisible, they should have no real affect as LONG as they are using cover. It's not XRay vision--you can't see through a rock if they're hiding behind it. Yes, the game engine will spot you behind cover, but SPOTTERS also have to behave responsibly when it comes to using stealth mode fore roleplay.

I hope that answers your question.

[nickbeat]

There was a long thread about this earlier. The main concern was with people using the stealth skill in the middle of an open space with nobody around.

I'd like to see some ruling on how to mediate this issue. I think a player would have to at least keep at some distance, and ideally behind cover, to actually use the hide skill.

I've experienced situations where someone stands right next to my character and talks while stealthed and that is just silly without magic.

[DurinRustbeard]

I've experienced situations where someone stands right next to my character and talks while stealthed and that is just silly without magic.

Ditto, And thanks guys for the replies

[Lollercide]

I've experienced situations where someone stands right next to my character and talks while stealthed and that is just silly without magic.

That's how 90% of my encounters with rogues are. Despite this, I can't rightfully do anything against it due to the limitations of IG mechanics.

Especially without some kind of solid DM ruling to back myself up if I try RP methods when they do so. Would only cause OOC frustrations and possibly drama. Yuck, drama.

[Dark presence]

Yeah this is always a problem. No cover, no stealth. No you can't hide in someone elses shadow either. They will notice you pressed against their back!

I'd say this goes even for shadowdancers, because as I interpret it, hide in plain sight is like a weak shadow jump. They aren't hiding in the open, they disappear from plain sight and reappear (hidden) in that shadow 10 feet away. Literally the HIPS feat is supposed to let them hide while being observed, not hide and run around in the open like a dog on a leash to a shadow. And if its not a big enough shadow, well then they should be seen again, or take a penalty on hide checks. But thats my interpretation. Of course there should be an immediate opposed spot check too, but I don't think the game does that.


Of course there are always other considerations. You can't slip away from your hiding spot when someone isn't looking because they always are looking. You can't run off to the side of the forest and circle around to find another exit, because there are exactly two in game ways out of the forest, and only one way in. And there are also the times where you are just moving quietly, and shouldn't be heard, even if there is nothing to hide behind (Like sneaking into an open area when no one is actually looking at you, they've got no reason to turn around unless they hear you, of course in the game if you don't sneak they immediately know you're there.).

[Elusa]

Blindsight should allow the caster to see the rogue, even though it doesn't work like that in NWN2. The ability gives the caster supernatural senses that can pierce most forms of invisibility and darkness, and no spot or listen checks are required. All you need is line of effect, meaning a rogue would need a solid object to hide behind. In essence, this means they might as well not be sneaking, because the victim wouldn't be able to see them anyway. On the other hand, see invisibility doesn't help against sneaking targets.

Basically, use common sense. If the rogue is sitting next to you talking, you can see them. If they're out in the open and they don't have HIPS, you can see them. The game engine doesn't take into account a lot of things that should inhibit, enhance, or negate sneaking.

[Llew Hy]

What about invisible potions? The other day someone used one around me and my spot was high enough to see them game-mechanic-wise but is this legit rp-wise?

[Lollercide]

What about invisible potions? The other day someone used one around me and my spot was high enough to see them game-mechanic-wise but is this legit rp-wise?

Your eyes, simply put, can not SEE anyone invisible. You can HEAR them, maybe, but not SEE them. Invisible characters will always appear on your client IG, but you need to assume that you can't see them.

Though, as I said, you can still hear them. Hano wouldn't be moving around very quietly in his full plate armor if he quaffed a invisibility potion. So, I think a listen vs move silent check should do it.

[nickbeat]

How is it that some people have +38 Hide skills? Do skill bonus items stack?

[Gevaudan]

Actually Loll when you "see" an invis person game mechanics wise it is because the game mechanics have rolled your listen check against the Dc for the invis spell/potion. So RP wise if you see them on your screen than you hear them IC.

If it's a hidden character using stealth and then you could have either heard or saw them depending on whether your spot or listen check beat their hide/movesilently.

Bottom-line is if the game mechanics let you see tham it's because it has made a roll for you and you have succeeded.

[caveman_282]

How is it that some people have +38 Hide skills? Do skill bonus items stack?

My lvl 6 rogueish char has 20 H/MS

It comes from a combination of Dex/skill/ and items.

If I remember right items do stack even having 2 fort rings on with +1 on them you can get +2 fort for having both items on.

[sharringtonm]

NWN2 Stacking Mechanics:

• Skills: All skill bonuses and penalties from all sources stack, unless from a identical source. (heroism does not stack with heroism, nor greater heroism, but does with prayer. A ring with +1 fort and +2 fort on it (by itself) only has +2 fort)
• Saves: All save bonuses and penalties from all sources stack, unless from a identical source. (resistance does not stack with resistance, nor superior resistance, but does with bless)
• Attack Bonus: All attack bonuses and penalties from spells and feats stack, unless from a identical source.
• Item attack bonus do not stack with other item attack bonuses, but will stack with spells and feats.
• Abilities: All abilities granted permanently by a feat (Epic Ability +1 feats) stack. Str bonus from rage or frenzy stacks with anything. No other Ability bonus's stack. Ability Penalties DO stack unless specificlly noted they do not.
• Energy Drain: Energy Drain Stacks
• Poison and Disease: Do Not Stack (though the lingering effects from them can stack)
• Damage Reduction: Does Not Stack
• Damage Resistance: Does Not Stack
• Damage Immunity: Items will stack with spells/feats and other items. Spells/Feats do stack but if you have over 100% from spells/feats (not items) it wraps back. (105% = 100%).

[nickbeat]

Interesting, skills don't stack like that in PnP do they?

[sharringtonm]

Nope. Your correct. Its a NWN thing, and would require a massive overhaul of the iprp 2das to change. Good Luck to you on that Nick!