Loot Jacking

[sharringtonm]

Please, if your partied up with someone new and he completes a quest you've allready finished, don't jack his loot. Leaving him the head of the boss and taking the gems and magic items is not cool OOC.

Doing it in front of me is even worse.

Doing it in front of me when you know I'm standing there is much much worse.

No names will be mentioned, and I'm not mad at anyone, but if this keeps up, we'll remove gems from boss loot and they will be DM rewards only.

[Gabryal]

I'm going to shive my sins and admit to this one. I will say it was my intention from the start to give all the loot to the new person, until I saw that diamond I needed so bad and freaked out. Sharringtonm set me straight, and I gave it all back to him. I can only call it a momentary lapse of judgement and weakness. I'm upset with myself over it, because I really know better. In anycase don't do it people, guilt sucks worse than getting any item in the game.

[MithrilBlade]

I would like a small clarification on the matter if possible.

Does this mean that if for example someone was helping a low-level char to do a quest, he/she may not ask if the person would like to give the gem as reward even if the lowbie was willing to give it etc, so that it must be purchased/traded from the him/her, or is this concidered illegal too?

I understand the reasons behind this choice well but it can become complicated when in RP if you play someone who likes to help new people around so it would be nice to be sure you're not breaking any rule.

[Lollercide]

You can obtain the items through RP means, however be considerate OOC!

Don't take items without giving them a FAIR chance to keep what they have earned. If they want to give it to you via RP, or you give them a fair RP offer? Sure, who can argue with that?

However, if you snatch things through OOC methods without giving them a chance, especially when it's their quest spawn..? Well, that just isn't right!

Kudos to Gabryal for manning up and admitting she was in the wrong to the public and apologizing for it, even though she was granted anonymity in kindness. *Hano-tone* Too many people shy away and hide from their mistakes instead of admitting them and atoning for them.

[Verrath]

Well.... you know about diamons and girls and all that ... Kudos seconded.

[MithrilBlade]

You can obtain the items through RP means, however be considerate OOC!

Don't take items without giving them a FAIR chance to keep what they have earned. If they want to give it to you via RP, or you give them a fair RP offer? Sure, who can argue with that?

However, if you snatch things through OOC methods without giving them a chance, especially when it's their quest spawn..? Well, that just isn't right!

Kudos to Gabryal for manning up and admitting she was in the wrong to the public and apologizing for it, even though she was granted anonymity in kindness. *Hano-tone* Too many people shy away and hide from their mistakes instead of admitting them and atoning for them.

Indeed and my characters, regardless of their alignment, wouldn't do this because I would always be OOCly polite about it.

I also meant to ask if the DM team want to also stop higher levels to help the lower ones to do quests at the same by announcing this new rule that the quest loot is supposed to be the property of the person who gets the quest.

I haven't found any reference on the subject anywhere so I kind always assumed that it's the "use common sense" -rule, meaning that you can lend a hand if it's within RP boundaries and not stuff like "let me go kill the boss for you and bring you the head while you're in AFK room idling" etc.

[Lollercide]

Aye.. Though, to be honest, I have OOC feelings against helping lowbies doing quests by giving them assistance with a high level character. Hours of effort went into these quests to give players a nice challenge and great RP opportunity.

DMs (and DEVs) work hard to encourage players to gather a bunch of other PCs when they adventure! So you can have have a great time fighting/RPing alongside each other and stuffs. Finding a lone high level and having him rush you through it? Definitely not as fun or challenging!

(Seriously, some of my favorite times in Sundren was when me, Jalmar, and Vu would head to the Necropolis.. Even if it ended up with me dying over 50% of the time, and I collectively lost more than I ever gained there, it was INSANELY fun.)

I understand that this changes violently given different circumstances, but I really like the idea of fellow players banding together and stompin' goblins, gnolls, orcs, or whatever it may be instead of them relying on that lone juggernaut.

I'm pretty sure DMs see this the same way (Though, I'm known to talk a lot of shit and be wrong.) - They want the game to be fun and challenging for every player

[valenator]

The most fun I've ever had in DnD, ever, is in low-mid level, low magic campaigns, 3-6 party members. That's what you get with the boss quests. Mmmm.

[Gabryal]

Wow.. I didn't admit to it to "man up" as Lollercide did, I was honestly feeling very guilty. This new character turned out to be about everything that I like in a new player. He asked alot of questions, wanted to know the history Sundren, went after the wiki like he was starving to know. He even looked up all my RP posts so he could read about Katie's adventures. He deserves major Kudos. Also I'd like to point out that after I came to my rather flighty senses. This character and I were able to barter for the diamond IC. If you character can't barter with another character then they can't barter with any of the vendors in town... which means he should be running naked through the hills with whatever gear he came off the ship with. RPing an anti social character is fine, one that can't bring themselves to buy a weapon for themselves is a crippled character. Remember that for RP purposes a PC is no different than an NPC, just one that has more chat options

[Kangleton]

So, wait... to get this straight:

If I sat at the Exigo Expedition Camp, a party of low-levels walked by, and I offered to follow them around and just heal them whenever they were going to die, maybe throw in a stoneskin or two, and I requested a single gem as payment, would I be in breach of some rule?

It's IC, and they have the active choice of accepting or declining the offer. Should they accept, though, I would indeed be looting the gem from their boss spawn - but with RP'ed permission.

Okay/Bad?

[Gabryal]

I'd think that if you arranged it IC before hand then you are ok, but if you wait until the boss is dead and demand it, that's not quite ok. At least that is my understanding

[nickbeat]

This response is really intended for Dune's original thread about this issue.

I always thought that realism was the prime directive in all cases. The rogue could not realistically pluck that gem without your seeing it unless they made an excellent sleight of hand roll. Certainly the staff would be impossible to hide.

In this example, the player is taking advantage of the game mechanics and breaking a presumed etiquette between grouped adventurers. If he had rolled a sleight of hand and explained in tells that he was doing so, that would be a nice IC way of dealing with the issue. Dune's mage would not even know the gem had even dropped.

Regarding the staff, the proper action might have been for the rogue to RP something like, "Seeya sucker!" and have him run off quite openly being a bastard. Perhaps strength rolls would be involved to fight over the stick. The proper response by Dune would be to then hunt him down and get him, or else just ruin his rep by telling everyone.

This brings us to another fundamental rule... be nice or nobody will want to play with you. It doesn't matter if your parents are watching, you still must contend with the opinions of your peers.

And don't forget rule zero... Is it fun? If not, then no good.

[sharringtonm]

Lets try this:

If someone else spawns a "Once in a lifetime" quest, regardless of who does the work, if you run up and take the choice loot of the "once in a lifetime boss" that character has forever lost the ability to have that loot because he'll go take the head back and move on.

Now imagine if that character is a new player to Sundren? And doesn't know that gems are EXTREMELY rare and there is a finite amount any one PC can acquire thru quests?
You've just used your greater knowledge of the mechanics of Sundren to
enrich yourself at someone else's expense.

All the above is showing OOC respect to NEW players. If you pulled this on Hano or Samantha, they would know, and they could respond appropriately to the jacked loot. NEW players don't know enough yet to be able to respond to jacked loot.

Now, for the server rules:
http://www.sundren.org/forum/faq.php...q_ninjalooting

Letting the new player whos a level 3 run around trying to survive the 1000 goblins that were spawned, while you pick and choose from the loot, because your strong enough a 1000 goblins can't even wind you, thats ninja looting.
I'm not making this up as I go, its all based on an established rule on the server put in place to prevent NEW players from growing discouraged and leaving.

Remember, this is all about OOC actions. I could care less if AFTER he has had his chance at the loot, you bribe, threaten, pickpocket, beat down, or offer sex for it.. thats all IC and is reasonable.

Jacking Loot = BAD
RPing for Loot = GOOD

[nickbeat]

Well yeah, it is just common courtesy really. Why do we even have to explain this to people at all? It should be really obvious.

[greendragon]

Well yeah, it is just common courtesy really. Why do we even have to explain this to people at all? It should be really obvious.

Why explain this? Because a lot of people think it's ok to just run up and take whatever they want no matter what. Someone did this to me just last night.