Sneaking in Temples

[Machiavelli]

People have been doing this so a ruling was required. This was my first reaction, and Saulus agreed.

You can't do it, it's that simple (unless you're a follower of Mask sneaking around a temple of Mask or something). You can hide from the eyes of other PCs but you cannot be concealed from the divine. Work under the assumption that the priests would notice you (I don't care how low their spot scores are), and then probably throw you out unless you had a bloody good story. Thus, any PCs in there would also know (this counts even when, and by that I mean escpecially when, there are no DMs about).

eg; You cannot sneak into the temple of Helm and spy on Helmite PCs (or any PCs) discussing their plans. It simply can't be done. I know the game engine allows it, but use your common sense and avoid it.

Thanks all!

[sharringtonm]

How far are we taking this mach? True sight or just spot? And how about disguise, do they have xray vision to see thru it? I only ask because these WILL be asked by the players.

[Machiavelli]

Well said s-dizzle, I was thinking the same thing after I posted .

I'd say the bar is set at a True Sight level. So, invisibility is no good either. Unless someone higher up the food chain wants to overrule me, I'd say you can only get away with it using an 'Ethereal Jaunt' spell.

[Raksha]

I believe that this could most easily be explained by saying that shadowdancing and the like can't be done in temples. Basically, anything that has hide in plain sight can't in a temple, since such abilities border on the magical, and the shadows in a temple would be a lot less -- amenable -- to hostile sneaking.

This way, a really dedicated sneaker who was willing to emote moving from cover to cover, and doing so well, could be accomodated. There's no way that the priests would have X-Ray vision to look into a crate if they got smuggled in -- or, imagine that, just wandered in off the street in disguise, and knelt somewhere to pray.

Hence, this would facilitate people willing to RP it through, and penalize those who'd just smack the stealth button and waltz on through.

Humble suggestion from not-a-staffer, mind you, just trying to be helpful. ^_^

[sharringtonm]

Ok, so planar shifting and disguise can work.

Ok, players, every understand the ruling? No sneak, no Hips, no inviso, no polymorph, no disguise or alter self spells in Temples (any)

You may attempt a skill based disguise (which is opposed by spot only if someone is interacting with you, no spotting disguises with your back turned from across the room.) and etheralness only.

[TheGreatKenji]

Stealth is a tricky subject, and if using mudane abilits such as raw hide and move i wouldnt see why some one couldnt sneak in a temple. the gods are mighty yes but they cant be in every temple at once at the same time, unless of course it was AO which then i wouldnt begin to doubt his powers.

[The Ice Hag]

There goes my master plan of sneaking into the temple concealed as a cow to take over Sundren

[Machiavelli]

Disguise is a different matter entirely. But, for instance, evil people in a temple to Torm are going to be noticed. It just stands to reason, unless a temple is simply a statue and a few pews (and I'm of the opinion that temples actually have some level of presence, albeit a small one, by the relevant deity). I was less thinking that priest would 'see', and more that they would simply 'know'.

[sharringtonm]

Stealth is a tricky subject, and if using mudane abilits such as raw hide and move i wouldnt see why some one couldnt sneak in a temple. the gods are mighty yes but they cant be in every temple at once at the same time, unless of course it was AO which then i wouldnt begin to doubt his powers.

The answer to this is simple. This is not PNP and we are mechanicly limited. We impose rules like this to make up for the short comings of
1.) NPC's AI is not real AI.
2.) There is not a DM following each and every player around.
3.) We must be seeing morale issues on the server because of this.

[Machiavelli]

Sean is of course correct. A part of this is that all established groups need areas where privacy is available to them. Those on the more evil end of the scale have a lot of privacy, where as if evils can sneak around temples then the good guys have effectively none at all. The ruling may not make sense in terms of PnP, but there you have it.

[EDIT] LH or Saulus may chime in to clarify or modify what I've said here. I'm not the top of the food chain, but this is the ruling for now.

[Kangleton]

So, just to clarify, if a Druid shifted into rat form and sat in a box, they'd still end up getting caught, just due to the knowing of the priests? It doesn't matter that there is no line-of-sight, no noise, or anything actually detectable?

What about if the PC isn't evil, and isn't sneaking for malicious intent?

I'm not asking in a manner to question the decision; I'm just trying to understand it, since it will impact my character.

[Machiavelli]

Alrighty Kang, just to clarify. The decision at this stage (though it may be changed after further discussion) is that you can't go undetected in temples (evil intent, or maliciousness are not the issues) without being ethereal. You aren't really a rat, you're a shapeshifted druid! This may be toned down later, but for now that's the deal.

[Kangleton]

Gotcha.

[TheBrogueadier]

Disguise is a different matter entirely. But, for instance, evil people in a temple to Torm are going to be noticed. It just stands to reason

A quick question based on this point (and my naivety when it comes to a lot of dnd things)..

If I'm strolling around as an Evil person in a temple with a big bunch of good people how should I deal with it? Esp when you've got folks like Tamryn and Hanno, would they know my pc's evilness when they meet in the temple of helm?


Sorry if it's a daft question..

[Lothoir]

Then just don't go into the temple. I have an evil character that interacts with Hano all the time; Hano probably has figured out Richard is not good, but doesn't think he's evil yet. I've never had a problem avoiding the temple, or even Sundren city for that matter. Be a little inventive, make excuses. Evil is supposed to be difficult.