Missing Classes?

[Gairun]

They were more powerful in NWN1. In NWN2 their song has been broken down into different parts, so you can no longer perform once and get +AC,+AB,+SAVES,+HP ETC. In NWN2 you have to pick which one of those bonuses you want active at the moment, and can only have ONE active. So yeah, bards got a few extra mezmerize type of songs but in exchange they lost the uber powerful all in one buffing performance.

[rustediron]

Instead they have curse song instead, which is bad news to almost everyone. Especially if the bard is level 17ish +

[Jaeram]

I dunno, I kinda like to play bards, but at the same time I think back to my days of playing Everquest and the bard system they had and it made me sad, because I think they had the best system. Bards didn't really fight with that system, all they did was 'twist' songs together, and good bards could twist 3 songs without too much trouble. The point was though they were doing what bards were supposed to do, nothing but sing an be inspirational on the battle field.

On the topic of needing more of a certain class, I believe we are quite lacking in barbarians, arcane archers, blackguards, duelists, and weapon masters.

[Aries1918]

Puck is a bard.

And I think we need more Blackguards. Seriously, where are they?

[Ethelo]

Actually yeah, blackguards seem rare (though I suppose you probably wouldn't know if you met one). I wonder how many people are trying to new classes...

[Jaeram]

We probably don't have any because that class is so openly evil they wouldn't live very long on our server. It's like they have the zeal of a paladin smiting undead, only... not undead... just anything. A blackguard probably wouldn't be able to hide his evilness like a rogue or wizard might, I don't think a blackguard should even be able to try to hide it because it's supposed to be like a part of their personality, they epitomize evil. While I would love to see more blackguards, I have to say, looking at the class they kinda got jipped, they essentially traded all paladin spells with the exception of like 2, for a bit of sneak attack. The blackguard is supposed to be just as good as the paladin, they should have given them more spells, at the very least an antithesis to holy avenger, I think they should have had access to more necromancy, or other dark spells as well. Right now if I watched a paladin and a blackguard fight (same level, same gear) I would pretty much expect the paladin to win, not see it as an equal fight head on.

[rustediron]

>.< I remember Val got a blackguard pretty much perm'd... I felt pretty bad about that... very fun though We had a trial, and everything!

[ThePaganKing]

I have an almost pure bard. My first level I took was fighter which was based on his RP. He started as a young child in music and loved it, but his father wanted nothing of that and pushed him into war. He became a mercenary in Neverwinter and fought a few battles there. After too much slaughter, he basically turned his back on that part of his life and went back to song and his innate ability to use magic (1 ftr/13 bard).

Of course, nobody knows that background because he hasn't told anybody it, it really isn't anyones business right now.

Everyone knows him as very carefree, a singer that loves to drink, dance, and carouse.....a LOT!

[sharringtonm]

I personally liike the implementation of Blackgurads. True its not PNP, and its not Anti - Paladin (Which WOTC Manuals claim is the opposite of paladin, not the black guard), But I've messed with it a bit. Its a really well rounded PRC.

Good saves coupled with his CHA bonus to saves. Good BAB increases. Throw in sneak attack. Throw in turn Undead. Throw in some fun PNP feats (contagion and such) cool summons ( the skeleton warrior, not the rat), Good HPs. Will work well either as a tank in full plate or a sneak in leather. Can use poison without a save. (Yeah smite good is pretty lame in this enviroment). His aura that lowers saves... give him a weapon that causes status ailments and you just empowered the weapon! Hes got a few more skill choices then the paladin. Hes very very well rounded for a non caster. Not to many PRCs out there as balanced as this one.
As for being as good as a paladin? Not in this enviroment I suppose when 99% of the spawns are non good. Probably not gonna do well against said paladin in PVP if the paladin goes into it fully buffed. In sheer comparison of flexibility to situations though? I'd go with the BG. After all Sundren is about more then how fast can I kill that player and how many spawns can I kill without taking a hit. ..... Isn't it? (I might be wrong, as I'm still stuck on fishing).

In most DM events that aren't all about spawning bad guys, I'd favor a Blackguard to perform better then a paladin.

Again it just my opinion, but hes very well rounded.

[Jaeram]

It's not that I didn't really think that the blackguard isn't well rounded, just that I think of him as being the anti-paladin, and I see him get a lot of the same things as the paladin, i.e. paladin - smite evil, divine grace, turn undead. Blackguard - smite good, dark blessing, turn undead. I guess the way I saw it was wanting them to be equal and if you consider the paladins other abilities like aura of courage, lay on hands, etc. equivalent to the blackguards other abilities, summoning undead and fiend, sneak attack, etc., you end up with a spell list for each where some of the paladins spells are really amazing holy sword, heals, shields, resistances, other buffs, compared to the black guards list where the only really useful spell seems to be bulls strength, I mean the inflict wounds are probably almost useless because at the level you can use them you will probably be doing more damage with you weapon and not want to waste time trying to use that, and contagion probably won't help too much, I just think they got jipped on the spells. I feel that either blackguards got jipped on the spells or paladins have it too good with their spells.

[Gairun]

Blackguards in NWN1 were pretty beefy. Not many people knew it but Blackguards got bulls strength as a 'magical ability' 1/day, and this STACKED with regular bulls strength the spell or potion. heh, thats right you could have a +8 str. easy from a potion and your innate ability.

Role-playing a blackguard to me is more of the hidden plague type. On one of my old NWN1 servers we had this character for two real life years everyone thought was a paladin/cleric of lathander. One day we were having a coronation of the new king of the land and this character was going to be the one to crown the new king. Well it turned out he was a blackguard and through careful brooding manipulation had over the past two years seen to it that men loyal to him were serving as the kings guardsmen and militia captains, he also had seduced the female high priestess of the kingdoms church and turned her to his side, and then the high point came when as he was all smiling and benevolent as he was lowering the crown onto the princes head to king him, he instead beheaded him and took the reigns of power over in the kingdom in one fell swoop. All this was the fruits of two years time of nothing but plotting and putting on the most evil and amazing charade I have seen.

To me that is what a Blackguard truly is, the hidden evil you least expect until it is too late.

[Kangleton]

Someone buy me a computer, and I'll make a Bard/Blackguard and solve aaaaall your problems.

[Drider-man]

Well, seeing as a Blackguard is basically an unrighteous servant of an evil god, how a blackguard would depend very much on his god. Blackguards of Mask, Cyric or Shar would probably be stealthy and cunning, while a Blackguard of Bane or Talos would most likely be more the classic full armor heavy. It all depends of course, no reason you can't play a sneaky talossian after all

[Dark presence]

Blackguards are just bleh. As interesting as they could be, they are hamstrung by quite a few issues here.

Firstly, EVIL IS BAD! If you're known to be a blackguard, you are damned to have problems wherever you go. PCs are largely unwilling to either fear or work with known evils unless they are also evil, and even then because of politics among evils its not likely. Further, being a blackguard, they will automatically think you're up to something nefarious, whatever you are doing.

Summons are the next problem for Sundren. When undead are outright outlawed, and your other option is demon summoning....that really ends up being a bad idea, because it goes back to number 1, and can even get your character killed off here I think, because it is outlawed.


Third, its got some lousy design features. Five points required in hide and its not even a class skill for blackguard! It really was designed as the evil counterpart to paladin and poorly done both in the PHB and in NWN2. I could go off on a tangent about how I hate paladins in FR, though I won't, however that blackguard isn't locked to one alignment does win a bit of approval from me. But as was said already, those bonuses vs. good are pointless in a PW where you don't ever fight anything good unless its a PC.

[Baculus]

>.< I remember Val got a blackguard pretty much perm'd... I felt pretty bad about that... very fun though We had a trial, and everything!

*Raises hand* And for remembering that- you must die...

Though, that isn't quite what I had in plan though... I was going to let him just sit in the forest of night forever- untill someone rezzed him(after his body was destroyed) and brought him to trial in real style- to be perma'd. XD

In all honesty though, the problem with the blackguard in NWN2 really is simply that they really *aren't that good*. They will get straight out beat to death by a paladin/cleric/fighter/ect ect... also all their abilities are straight out evil. The only thing that makes them useful is simply their summon skills in NWN2; since they lack a decent spell list... and either summon will get said person lynched.

In their defense, this is a role playing server... but a person would more likely be better off trying to roll an eldritch knight and go that route... or go with something like a Monk for something evil since they don't need the various buffing powers.
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The one thing I'm seeing to much is Wizards... well, not the normal sort of wizard. The ones who simply buff themselves to obscene levels and go around tanking monsters...

Though they where culled somewhere after said character was perma'd. With the Mage Armor nerf- some of the abusability was changed.

Way back when, I remember Lady Isiovien... she had buffed 40+ AC in very little armor IIRC. Prettymuch slaughtered whoever messed with her drowness.

Though, again- on the perma'd character I managed to best her... Used like 10 barkskin potions, several dozen healing potions... and everything left in my inventory....

I *might* try another blackguard some day...