The Nature Of The Beast, AKA: What constitutes roleplaying

[Drider-man]

What better way to start my time on Sundren than to initiate some Quixotic debate on roleplaying, I thought to myself, and here goes:

Being a veteran NWN1 player, I've played on several servers. Some hardcore roleplaying, some more easy-going and once I even ended up in a very strange place called Fraghaus Krynn where I was adressed in german, killed, looted and traumatised, so I think it's fair to say I've been around a bit.
As many of us perhaps already knows, there are about as many views on what constitutes "proper" roleplaying as there are roleplayers. For some, it's mostly the levels and the stats, for others it's character development and for some, something else entirely.

The reason i bring this up is that I was recommended this server as very dedicated, hardcore roleplaying server but from my (granted, rather limited) experience so far, hardcore and dedicated isn't really how I'd choose to describe it. Don't get me wrong, I like the server and the people here seems nice too, but where are the roleplaying gatherings, where are the people enjoying an ale and a tale in the taverns, exchanging stories, trading or bartering?
From what I gather, roleplaying here is more a question of "what we do in-between killing things", conversations between PCs being mostly a matter of deciding where to go get xp and how to divide the plunder.

So I ask you, the populace of Sundren, is this how it is on this server, or have I simply missed the "real" roleplaying so far and if so, where does it happen?
And if this is how it is on this server, is it the way you want it to be, or should we do something about it, and what?

Sincerely,
Driderman

[Landaren]

We roleplay often, I think you just miss it

Lot of the times when DM's are not around players run about gathering gold and nicknacks to help them during events.

[Cadmus Runesmith]

I think perhaps you will find what you are looking for at the Exigo campfire, or one of the many events the DM's run on the server.

The campfire is the main "Hub" of RP on the server, although I wish it was a tavern of some sort, due to its convenience of access to all players. Perhaps one day the Exigo will fund the placement of a tavern upon its grounds

There is a very tight RP community on the server, I am sorry that you have failed to find it yet, but in time I'm sure you shall discover its nuances.

[Chiangtao]

Coincidentally, I used to build and DM for Fraghaus Krynn long, long ago. I think I've grown and changed as a roleplayer since those days--the idea of playing on a 99/99 server has no appeal to me anymore.

In my opinion, Sundren has a little bit of everything for all types of players. There are many who enjoy the hack-and-slash, but they are kept in regulation by the automatic level caps. But, you'll also find many who enjoy roleplay above and beyond their character sheets. Like on every server, know thyself, and seek out those who seem to match your playstyle. They are here, I'll tell you that much.

Hotspots for RnR include Jimmy's Dice Tavern and the Exigo campfire.

[Drider-man]

But... Why do we need a DM around to roleplay?

Roleplaying is more than just DM events. Roleplaying is a much PC-to-PC interaction, if not more so. The players are the people of the server that are supposed to give it life, in my opinion.
As I see it, all the wellrun DM Events in the world aren't worth one bit, if it means players aren't roleplaying when DMs aren't around.

It is our responsibility as players to inspire, entertain and interact with both other players and DMs, as much as it is the DMs.
If we just run around killing stuff when the DMs aren't there to activate us, well thats pretty sad isn't it?

[Jaeram]

Yeah I think I know what you were talking about drider-man, from last night. I have to say that wasn't the most role play related experience I've been a part of by far, it was lacking. I think the part that set it off on the wrong foot was running in to Arkain again. The past few days I've had the displeasure of running in to a few people on the server who just grind and grind and farm places for loot, and when I ran in to him it kind of frazzled me, not to mention then but running in to him two or three other times, and not knowing the other characters he was with as role players or grinders made me leery of them too. So I apologize to the extent that I can for what happened on my part, every now and then I have some trouble getting back in to it when there's a lot of ooc, things just didn't go the way I had hoped they would.

[nickbeat]

Yeah, I personally love it when we can get a real believable roleplay but certain factors can mess me up. We had a nice thing going the other night with RP and hacking as well! But it got totally blown when one character leveled and we all stood around waiting in the middle of an assault on Veritas Hold. Granted, a number of people had technical difficulties as well which always throws it off.

Still, the other night I attended a very nice ceremony, where my character got extremely jealous of Cadmus and his shiny blue plate mail! Then he proceeded to get blasted in a drinking contest, where he LOST TO A HUMAN! Can you believe that? A Dwarf losin' to a human! It was humiliatin!

[CPBailey74]

I figure I will stick my 2 cents in as well. Ha ha ha. I think what he was saying is that Role-Playing is more along the line as a "State Of Mind" then a group of people gathering, actions, etc. As some examples:
A power hungry mage.
A thief looking for that big score and masses of wealth.
A bard to become world reknown.
A Druid seeking inner peace with his wilderness surroundings.
A warrior looking for something to kill.
Of course, those are very vague, but am sure is more to the point. Social gatherings are great, but is more to it. To each has their own agenda, goals and desires. Hack & Slash I do not think is bad, unless you are just out to kill everything that there is to kill. My general frame of mind is to make a fortune, be an explorer or sorts and gain in self-betterment.
If it is true role-playing, how many Druids are in the city? I like playing a Druid, but Druids by nature are not city dwellers, they prefer the outdoors and privacy for the most part. Thives are generally more loners of sorts.
Anyway, am still downloading the updates, so have not been on the server yet, but figured I would browse the posts while I waited.

[Jaeram]

While my character has his own agenda (writing his book for Candlekeep and expanding his own knowledge of the arcane) it requires extensive spell testing on his part, which he can most readily get by helping the local population quell their threats. Though he spent his first few days spending most of his time writing, either in the library or at the stump in the Exigo.

I think I might be a bit confused about what you meant CPBailey.. lol

[ThePaganKing]

I think the thing I like about Sundren is it can cater to different play styles. I think some on the server know me and I can RP with the rest of them or I can just go off by myself sometimes and look for a bit of loot or some xp.

Sometimes I don't even feel like being social and bring my one anti-social guy on and just putz around or check out new things.

There are many things going around that is player based RP:
1. The Arcanus Liberus is all players
2. The newer Wild Elf RP
3. Sir Ion and his change into a dwarf
4. Cadmus and his change from mage to cleric

Those are just a bit of what is going on that are primarily player run.

As to the Veritas RP, wow, what a battle. We started it as just an assault on the stronghold and it turned out into a very cool full blown battle with Sundren spearman and a mage. We did have some difficulties and such and we did stop for a short time, not in the middle of battle by the way, so that a character could level and save his character. He had been trying to gain that level for a long time, so I did understand his position.

By the way, we probably should not have even rested the whole time we were in there because of Veritas everywhere, but with the game mechanics, the shorter spell durations than NWN1, and the difficulty of Veritas, even for a large group, resting was necessary or we would have died quickly. We did roleplay placing guards and such, so.....

Anyway, I am sure you will find some very good roleplay situations and find the people that fit your roleplay style. Remember, everyone has a different idea of what roleplay is and what hardcore is also.

You will also find those grinders, but IMO, they don't really last long on Sundren. Most people can't stand waiting to make 6th level let alone getting capped, until sometime in the future, to level 15. But many of us who have been here a long time still stay because the place is fun and the world is fantastically done!

[CPBailey74]

I was pretty much just going along with what Drider-Man said, but I dumped some of my extra thoughts into it as well. I am still not totally sure what class to go for, looked at a few and saw there was a bunch. I know if I go in with a warrior, I am going to want to slaughter things. If I go in with a thief, I am going to be sneaking around looking for loot and such. I have been "Testing" several classes/races to see what would fit me best on here. Too bad they never implemeneted some of the old classes like the Thief-Acrobat, Ninja & Sammy and such that would be cool. Of course, now the Ninja is like a sin, Sammy like a Pally and Thief-Acrobat is kind of like a cross between Shadow Dancer and an Invisible Blade. Speaking of classes, I did not see any Duelists on the Statistics list, are they not availible or just not very good (have not tried them yet either)?
As an additional note that I forgot to comment on:
It would be nice if there could be building damage implemented into the game. Like if there was to be a raid on an enemy stronghold, using ladders/siege towers to get on the rammparts, using a ram on a wall, etc. Not that is it totally RPing, just a matter of how it is used (kind of like a King of the Castle sort of thing).

[Peridan]

Then he proceeded to get blasted in a drinking contest, where he LOST TO A HUMAN! Can you believe that? A Dwarf losin' to a human! It was humiliatin!

W00t. Samael rocked your dwarven world! Really, it was fun. We created our own drinking game complete with rules and rolls. We celebrated Cadmus' ceremony for at least 45 min., in a tavern no less. I may make the game official one day with a post...

The past few days I've had the displeasure of running in to a few people on the server who just grind and grind and farm places for loot

*cough* Dakhar *cough*

[Chiangtao]

*cough* Dakhar *cough*

Heh...

That's all I have to say about that.

[Kangleton]

To address what was said about players needing to be able to RP more without the assistance of DM's, I would have to say that such things are difficult, considering how few players can be found online at certain times. When I was playing, there were sometimes no more than five players, and with that few, it can be dramatically difficult to proceed with player-based plots and RP. I think what this calls for, is a new strategy from the DM's.

Rather than creating plots in events that band players together, there should be a greater amount that drive them apart. That way, even while DM's are offline, there are players online that have a pre-existing disdain for each other, and an already-present conflict to propel the plot forward at all times.

[Drider-man]

To address what was said about players needing to be able to RP more without the assistance of DM's, I would have to say that such things are difficult, considering how few players can be found online at certain times. When I was playing, there were sometimes no more than five players, and with that few, it can be dramatically difficult to proceed with player-based plots and RP. I think what this calls for, is a new strategy from the DM's.

Rather than creating plots in events that band players together, there should be a greater amount that drive them apart. That way, even while DM's are offline, there are players online that have a pre-existing disdain for each other, and an already-present conflict to propel the plot forward at all times.

I understand where you're coming from Kangleton, but I have to at least partially disagree. Roleplaying in-between characters doesn't have to revolve around DM created conflicts or conflicts in general. If you put your mind to it, you can roleplay about just about anything. It's the small things as well as the big things, maybe your character has a crush on someone, maybe s/he's jealous, maybe he has a drinking problem, there are always plenty of opportunities.
I think the main reason why I bring up this point is that I see a really good server here, that I think could be even better.
Of course, if people like it the way it is I'll just have to make do with what I get
My point really, is suspension of disbelief: I personally find it hard to believe that we're all hardy adventurers that do nothing but go kill monsters for gold and xp, and join a DM Event and slaughter something unusual from time to time. Adventurers have lives outside of kicking in the door and looting the corpses, just like everyone else.

N.B: I'd like to mention though, that the RP seems to be picking up a bit, and I appreciate all the constructive comments you people are putting into this