Stealth Mode

[Kangleton]

Hmm, good point Sharringtonm. I lost sight of that original post after reading all the others. In an open field with that distance, I would agree that stealth shouldn't be abused as described. However, there are still other RP alternatives. RP'ing the presence of a smoke bomb? Throwing sand in the eyes of the observer? Things like that... however, I'm sure that if such tactics were used, they would provoke saving throws or some other DMFI roll, and would also constitute enough RP as to not piss off anyone there.

*shrug* My main character has maxed Spot with a +10 wisdom modifier to add to it, with a +5 spot mask, and True Sight. So... I'm biased.

[sparkeh]

The open field scenario depends on whether its night or day and rogue or SD.

Rogues should not disappear in either day or night as theres nothing to hide behind. SD could disappear at night as there could be shadows around. SDs can disappear into shadows. Thats what they do.

[Slanke]

In one of my books, there was a rougelike person who had the magical ability to enter a plane similar to the shadowplane, I play my SD/wiz as she enters that plane when she is HIPSing.
She did months of research into it and after long time got able to use her "spell".
Id someone manages to spot her, I take the stealthmode off, and she "lost her consentration" to remain in the there.

[Konchuu]

I do something similar with my shadow dancer. I type *shadows seem to engulf her* with that i mean that she does not dash in to a shadow but instead shadows comes out and hides her.

[Landaren]

It's a TON of work placing NPC's, and the more NPC's you have in an area creates a greater amount of lag. Just because there are no commoner NPC in exigo doesn't mean that its not a major area of commerce. If you add up all the NPC's in sundren theres like 200 people (thats a guess not an actual number) 200 npcs doesn't really equate to a city let alone a small nation. So it's safe to say rogues are blending in with a crowd. Or if theres a disturbance between people at certain areas that it's likely to draw a crowd.

[Gairun]

Thats the point with ShadowDancers, they actually enter the plane of shadow via magical means when they stealth. Rogues are just normal trained people at various types of stealth.

If you are actively looking or observing a Rogue it is impossible for them to vanish in front of you. The only exception would be if you were following a trained rogue through a crowd of people on a street, or say he drops a smoke bomb, or hurries around a corner etc. etc. Basically anything that breaks line of sight momentarily gives him the ability to put to use his natural talents.

[Drider-man]

New guy here, haven't even been on the server yet, seeing as it's down..


Anyway: You speak of opposed spot/hide rolls, but doesn't the stealth ability already take that into account? If your listen or spot skill is high enough, you can see people even though they are stealthed, can you not? That's how it was with NWN 1 at least, I just recently got NWN 2 so I'm not 100% sure on this.
But if such is the case, it would seem unfair that the would-be spotter gets another try, when s/he has already failed once.

Of course, I'm sure we all can agree that rogues don't just magically vanish into thin air, but as others have said, not every NPC is represented in game. So vanishing into the crowd is fair play, disappearing in the middle of a field with no place to hide: Not so much

[GatorPhD03]

Anyway: You speak of opposed spot/hide rolls, but doesn't the stealth ability already take that into account? If your listen or spot skill is high enough, you can see people even though they are stealthed, can you not? That's how it was with NWN 1 at least, I just recently got NWN 2 so I'm not 100% sure on this.
But if such is the case, it would seem unfair that the would-be spotter gets another try, when s/he has already failed once.

So far as I know you are correct. I think the same protocol holds as in NWN1: If you see a blacked out shadow with no detail, you can hear but not see them and if you see detail but they are transparent you can see but not hear them.

I think stealth now works for PvP (it was supposed to be fixed a few patches ago). Recently I was coming out of the Stonegarb caves a bit beat up and stealthy while Balzack the dwarf was coming in. I walked past him as he was finishing up a fight and I stopped for a bit. I'm pretty sure I was close enough for his player to have me in his field of view but he didn't pause or give any indication that he saw me...he just moved on.

Considering I have talked to Balzack before when we have run into each other and his player would have no way of knowing I was in stealth or not (if he had seen me) I'm assuming stealth worked.

[lordmaple]

Thats the point with ShadowDancers, they actually enter the plane of shadow via magical means when they stealth. Rogues are just normal trained people at various types of stealth.

If you are actively looking or observing a Rogue it is impossible for them to vanish in front of you. The only exception would be if you were following a trained rogue through a crowd of people on a street, or say he drops a smoke bomb, or hurries around a corner etc. etc. Basically anything that breaks line of sight momentarily gives him the ability to put to use his natural talents.

The game mechanic actually reflects this. If I activate stealth mode while people can see me, I'm still visible. As soon as the LoS breaks though, I become invisible.

Also keep in mind that NWN glosses over a lot of "Terrain Details" that would definately be true in a medieval world - namely, that the "Open Fields" you see in the Sharhan hills would most definately have grass at least a foot tall.

Why?

No lawnmowers, and the goblins probably kill all the grazing animals for food.

Someone with good Hide/Move Silently could "hit the dust" and "slither through the grass".

Magical items that give +Hide/Move Silently do things like: blur your image when its unclear, or soften your footsteps. It isn't entirely unreasonable that someone can hide from you in an "open field". Just think of an Army Ranger Sniper in one of those outposts in those suits-i-cant-remember the name of. Perfectly camouflaged.

That being said...I usually try to stick to the shadows/walls when I sneak around

[Jaeram]

Ghillie suits, I have one for wood lands paint ball.

[Kangleton]

Those are some really good points you mention, in regards to the terrain, maple. In cases such as that, I think the only thing that should be done is having the stealther drop an emote, describing how they remained hidden, or something like that. At least then, it puts everyone's mind at ease.

[joker]

Stealth does work for PvP. I know because I have someone stalking me just about everytime I log on with Calowyn Tir'ent (You know who you are, Marrs).

[Silas North]

hiding

I wonder if having the particular field you are in add bonuses or penalties (or just less of a bonus) would be a good idea. That system is already partially implemented via dark, small size, forested areas for rangers and druids, etc. However, I wonder if taking it a step further could add an additional flavor. Crowded city streets would give a big bonus. Large open, well-lit arenas... not so much.
I am certainly not saying this is something that SHOULD come about. Programming is hard enough as it is. I am just killing time til my popcorn is ready.

[lordmaple]

I wonder if having the particular field you are in add bonuses or penalties (or just less of a bonus) would be a good idea. That system is already partially implemented via dark, small size, forested areas for rangers and druids, etc. However, I wonder if taking it a step further could add an additional flavor. Crowded city streets would give a big bonus. Large open, well-lit arenas... not so much.
I am certainly not saying this is something that SHOULD come about. Programming is hard enough as it is. I am just killing time til my popcorn is ready.

Thats what RL DM's do.

But for Sundren, that would require a lot of work. A lot. Personally, I'd rather see them finish other things (quests, factions, crafting, story line) before they focused on that.

You'd also need a system that would inform the rogue-like as to what chances he had for hiding. That's even more code.

I can understand people's frustration, but not all hiding characters are necessarily hostile, and some are just fruitcakes. My character is often just watching because as soon as people see him the conversation flow stops Oh, and it saves a few spell slots.

[sharringtonm]

There is an setting for each area that adjusts spot and listen checks. Not for the field itself but the entire area. That usually covers it.

As for animations.. Obisidian never finished the animations for Players and other non hostiles. A person who hits the stealth skill right in front of you CAN vanish without having the hips feat. NWN2 still considers him seen by you but the animation is broke. When he hits that stealth button, on the next heartbeat (6 seconds) it will do the listen spot check. If you pass he'll still be visible (or heard with the silloutte). If you fail he vanishes. Here's the part most people don't realize. You can still target him even with him having vanished. The game applies the animation but not the mechanics. If hes hostile, hit your tab key and presto there he is. Might not be able to swing a sword at him, but it works well for feats and spells.
The fix for this was supposed to come out in 1.12 but they pushed it back. It follows in the same problem as the inviso bug. Its an animation problem.

The idea behind it was this, in the single player game (which NWN2 is marketed towards mainly) if your NPC companions went inviso, you wanted to be able to still see them. So they never set the right animations.

Yes in NWN1 the animations were there, but since NWN2 uses a different graphics engine, it needs brand new animations.

I hope that helps clear up a bit of the problem.