Stealth Mode

[Chiangtao]

Hey folks! Wanted to post some food for thought.

Stealth mode, sneaking and hiding, is not the same thing as invisibility. Disappearing in front of someone's eyes is, well, a bit abussive of stealth mode.

Even HIPS does NOT equate to invisibility. HIPS allows you to attempt a hide roll when someone is staring right at you. Without HIPS, you can't go into stealth mode when someone has spotted you.

I bring this up because I've seen rogues "magically disappearing", while they walk right down the middle of the road. Or, in the middle of a conversation, literally vanishing. Hey, if it's a fight against NPCs or monsters, NP! It's a video game. Even if it's PVP, sure, use your talents to survive in my book. But, maybe you want to reconsider how you use stealth mode when interacting with other players.

Food for thought, I'm not the law. It's just one of those pet peeves I have

[Peridan]

I dunno, if a rogue decides to hide himself in "the shadows" then it's really their thing. If there are no shadows around, well, that's a problem with the game design. It equates to jumping into the bushes or blending in with the surroundings.

And while you, as the player, may see them disappear, it does not necessarily mean that your character sees them.

[Chiangtao]

I'm talking about folks who I am facing in an open field, maybe 10 feet away, talking back and forth... and they slap on stealth mode and emote *vanishes*. Rogues don't have supernatural powers here

[Peridan]

Ah, well, that's kind of silly

[nickbeat]

Yeah, that really wouldn't make sense without HiPS. Even in that case, maybe the rogue makes a hide roll vs your spot and you can RP accordingly. If the spot check wins then you can see them.

[Aries1918]

If they don't have HiPS, then they definitely shouldn't do that. If they want to try to hide, they should at least try to get out from out in the open.

[Ithildin]

well if its walking down a street, just keep in mind they can't really put a npc for every citizen in sundren so the rogue could technically just be disappearing among the commoners you can't see and such.

[Jaeram]

You can still see the npc's labeled commoner though. I do think that's weird though, I mean standing on a road, even with HiPS, what is he gonna do magically pull a road colored blanket out of his pack, throw it over himself and pretend to be a bump and expect you not to see him? That does seem like a game play issue more than anything, as well as bad role play.

[nickbeat]

To go invisible while in the forest, you just need to hold a branch out in front of you and chant... "Hedge Hedge Hedge Hedge".

[Baculus]

well if its walking down a street, just keep in mind they can't really put a npc for every citizen in sundren so the rogue could technically just be disappearing among the commoners you can't see and such.

The only problem with this thought is that if you take liberty for this; where would the line be? I can see DM's editing circumstances and inputting moderated descriptions but if every person can do this... it breaks stuff. ._.

I think running behind a building, tree, person, or even dashing into a house is all perfectly acceptable uses of HIPs... but even then Spot/Listen checks should be used.

[sparkeh]

One thing people should remember is that strictly speaking you should be 10ft from a shadow when using HIPS. Given that Shadow Jump isn't implemented I wouldn't mind if people substituted this for increasing the range of HIPS ie 20ft at lv 4, 40ft at lv6, 80ft at lv8 and 160ft at lv 10.

Hmm now that we are getting dimension door spell I wonder if we can get shadow jump (as they are very similar).

I agree that rogues don't have supernatural abilities but I kinda think that Shadowdancers do and disappearing into a shadow that is close is ok by me.

[Gairun]

Shadow Dancers = Magical Powers, they can just 'vanish' in front of you if a shadow is nearby. . . Magically!

Rogues = Mundane means of hiding very well. Trained at common forms of stealth, no magic involved

High Level Rangers = Quasi-Magical ability to fade away from view in the wilderness even while you are staring at them.

[Kangleton]

When a Rogue vanishes into nothingness, even without HiPS, it is generally justified by saying that, logically, there would be a crowd of people in busy areas that are not supported by the game engine. In Exigo, for instance, there could stand to be hundreds of busy Sundrenites shopping and trading, bringing in farmed goods, and guards switching their shifts as well... there would be men, women, children, wagons, horses, mules, farm animals, and probably a bunch of other things that would make the streets and surrounding areas packed. Therefore, a Rogue could say that he bumped into another guy, and he proceeded to fade into the crowd. Its not supernatural.

Additionally, if there are tables, or trees, or shopping stands, or any other object bigger than a human within about ten feet, it would make sense that by hitting the stealth button, the Rogue jumped behind the obstacle and out of sight. This makes sense because such actions arent represented in NWN2. You cannot actually dart behind a shopping counter, so it might be wise to be more leniant about such things as hitting stealth to represent that.

...I'm not stating whether or not these are my real opinions, as I've never played a stealth character and never had a problem with one. I'm just presenting another opinion.

[sharringtonm]

When a Rogue vanishes into nothingness, even without HiPS, it is generally justified by saying that, logically, there would be a crowd of people in busy areas that are not supported by the game engine. In Exigo, for instance, there could stand to be hundreds of busy Sundrenites shopping and trading, bringing in farmed goods, and guards switching their shifts as well... there would be men, women, children, wagons, horses, mules, farm animals, and probably a bunch of other things that would make the streets and surrounding areas packed. Therefore, a Rogue could say that he bumped into another guy, and he proceeded to fade into the crowd. Its not supernatural.

Additionally, if there are tables, or trees, or shopping stands, or any other object bigger than a human within about ten feet, it would make sense that by hitting the stealth button, the Rogue jumped behind the obstacle and out of sight. This makes sense because such actions arent represented in NWN2. You cannot actually dart behind a shopping counter, so it might be wise to be more leniant about such things as hitting stealth to represent that.

...I'm not stating whether or not these are my real opinions, as I've never played a stealth character and never had a problem with one. I'm just presenting another opinion.

Allright, say we agree with this, and a rogue has the ability to slip away in a crowded area.

I'm talking about folks who I am facing in an open field, maybe 10 feet away, talking back and forth... and they slap on stealth mode and emote *vanishes*. Rogues don't have supernatural powers here

This is the example given by the original poster. Lets focus on the open field, 10 feet away, and in a conversation with the viewer.
And the adding on of the emote *Vanishes*.

I personally would be dissapointed if someone did that to me. I'd know they were taken advantage of the missing stealth animations to give themselves MAGICAL powers.

[Peridan]

Maybe they just dropped to the ground and disappeared Rambo style =P