Finalized Death Rules

[Unholy Carp]

Just my thoughts, go ahead and take a whack at me.

Okay!

If you are worried about having clerics that raise or resurrect being ineffective with the coming soon current system, then maybe we could have it that if you are resurrected or raised in the field, then you lose no xp or gold, but you lose a constitution point permanently.

Reversible via Greater Restoration, or no?

Look at it this way. If you are wounded in RL in a combat situation and you have a combat medic helping you, you will not respond or heal as quickly as if you were in the rear getting the specific treatment, surgeries, and drugs you really need.

This kind of argument is always frustrating, because you're asking that we compare the reality we all know and avoid with a fantastic contrivance that doesn't operate under the same physical laws. Any lines you draw for comparison between real world and fantasy world interaction are arbitrary at best and fallacious at worst.

Now, you are in the field (Sundren), you are in combat or just finished combat and you are dead. Everyone is exhausted and you are asking a cleric to raise or resurrect you. He doesn't have a temple or other priests to help with the power it takes to perform this intense and should be physically exhausting rite nor is he in a temple where the God's power would be greater than out in the field.

This varies not only from god to god, but from class to class. For instance, neither of my two characters worship gods that don't even have formal temples (Istishia and Brandobaris), though the both have the potential to raise the dead.

Further, the spirit shaman's raise dead ability, while by all means is certainly an exhausting rite, was designed in the original source material as being intended for field use.

I think most of the nwn2 wikia article is more or less lifted directly from the Complete Divine supplement (obviously this has changed in nwn2 for gameplay reasons):

Recall Spirit:

Raise Dead: usable once per week as a spell-like ability. Only usable within 1 round of the target’s death, but does not result in loss of level.

So, he raises or rezes you, but because he had to rely on his own power and he is probably tired anyway, you come back, but he had to use a bit of your soul or power to help with the spell...........thus, a permanently lower constitution hit.

Usage of divine magic isn't about tapping into some sort of personal power: it's about getting favors in exchange for embodying and making sacrifices for an ideal. That's why, by the book, casting of clerical spells is easier in terms of somatic components. You're essentially flashing a signal to your god saying, 'Remember that favor I asked for? I've got my sacrifice ready, lay it on me!' and not actually actively manipulating the order of the universe as an arcanist would.


Finally, your arguments on the subject of player versus nonplayer power can be viewed from another perspective: if adventurers are expected to depend upon inexpensive npc clerical services for their healing needs, should the player clerics then also be allowed to inexpensively hire level 11 npc mercenaries; mercenaries better equipped than any comparable leveled pc fighter?

[ThePaganKing]

I had two primary points:
1. We take raise dead and resurrection way too much for granted. These are very, very powerful magics and what sacrifice do you think would require you to be able to do it? What sacrifice are you going to give in the middle of a dungeon to be able to use this powerful magic? A couple gems, some stags, your first born child? Oh, I died, hey, let me rest for a second and then whip up a raise or rez, and then we can continue to tool through this dungeon.
2. I was trying to provide a possibel reason why it was less expensive to have someone raised or rezed in a temple where they have more resources rather than in the field, and thus, trying to give a real life example of why this could be to add to the argument. In your opinion, it was a an invalid argument; however, that is merely your opinion and this, is merely my opinion.

The great thing about Democracy is we can express our opinions without fear........well, most of the time

[Sammael]

Is the level cap going to stay at (effectively) 15?

[Saulus]

Is the level cap going to stay at (effectively) 15?

Yes, but you won't feel that as much in the "final" version of Sundren, because quests and DM XP will offer the experience to push you past 15... We want those last levels to 20 to be a rollercoaster ride that any effective form of "hunting" and "grinding" won't let you achieve.

[Saulus]

These new death rules are now in effect, please note that for now only the temples of Helm will offer temple raising. This is only temporary, as when I have more time I will add this functionality into all relevant temples, etc.

[Caligula]

Why not just increase the raise payment greatly at the temple and eliminate the xp loss. Maybe 1000*lvl + a nasty bonus.

[Ithildin]

they already tried a high payment at the temple, i dont mind the xp loss but I'd like to be able to afford it after dragging someone through an enemy infested area all the way to a temple

[sparkeh]

Why not just increase the raise payment greatly at the temple and eliminate the xp loss. Maybe 1000*lvl + a nasty bonus.

The death rules have been much debated, I don't think they are going to change now.

[Phantom Lamb]

One more thing to add about death and resurrection.

OOCly, for our players, resurrection is a commonplace option. As such, I've seen some players taking it for granted, treating a trip to the FEN like a dip in a swimming pool. "Hey, I can always come back out, I KNOW I can be resurrected."

Please don't take this system for granted. ICly, resurrection should be seen as a rare thing (otherwise we'd have a city of undying citizens!). Heck, PnP rules can give you a CON hit or a loss of level.

You shouldn't risk death with the OOC knowledge that you will easily be restored to life. This includes committing suicide, going somewhere risky because you're only 100XP into a level, etc.

Please treat death with respect. We do occassionaly employ permadeath, and decisions you make can affect this.