The reason *why* Oshala keeps using disguises...

[Shadoweaver]

Should I be tolerant of Characterinwhite? or Should they be tolerant of me? Thats why I say a neutral outside authority needs to rule on this. How are disguises handled? We need a rule.

Shad

[CharacterInWhite]

The problem is amongst his many mental disorders Z'huul is totally paranoid. Letting her walk around with disguises and not having Z'huul watching her, particularly when he knows there is a disguised monk who visits the trading post, goes against MY characters RP. Thats why I say again, we need some guidance from an authority.

Shad

Funny you should call yourself paranoid, considering you don't accuse every woman who enters the campfire of being a disguised Monk.

Just my take on it.

[Kangleton]

Haha, yeah... roll spot on everybody that walks by you from now on. And if you roll reeeaaally low, you should think ALL of them are Oshala. That'll be paranoid.

[Shadoweaver]

This is going nowhere, I'd really like some DM's to provide some guidance on this matter.

To Illustrate how people won't agree on how to handle this, I'll show you how I would handle it if it were my choice. Merchants somewhere should sell a 'disguise mask' probably the same as the samurai mask but in a bright color so it is easy to see. If players are wearing this mask, you assume they are 'in disguise'. If you know the character from a previous encounter you make a spot check, the disguised character makes a bluff check (not hide, disguise should be limited to rogue type characters otherwise monks, rangers and several sub-classes become masters of disguise which is no part of their skill set) If the spot check passes the bluff check you see through the disguise, if not you don't. If the character does something 'suspicious' like mention meeting you in the past when they are in a different disguise you may make another spot roll. You RP your reaction appropriately based on if you know who they are or not.

Ok, so now that you see my system, I'm sure that there are a lot of people who won't like it. Thats my real point here. We need a neutral authority to make an unbiased ruling and then we can move on.

Shad

[Shadoweaver]

In point of fact I assume Z'huul is making constant checks to see if anyone around him is in disguise, but since I would have to make hundreds of checks per day, in the middle of peoples conversations all of which will result in 'I don't think they are in disguise' I don't see any reason to spam the chat channel with them.

Shad

[Dune]

So, I implore you, enemies of Shar and Oshala. As long as I'm in my disguises, and I'm not purposefully spying or eavesdropping on you, leave me be. Leave the Spots and Searches for another time - because I'm just trying to exist peacefully. I will notify you when something relevant to our conflict comes up, at which point I assume my role as spy. I will inform you of when I'm no longer 'peacefully existing' and becoming a threat. It's at that point, as long as your character successfully recognizes me, that you have all rights to shoo me away (preferably in subdual. )

I think the way you have said 'Leave the Spots and Searches for another time' is quite against what the server strives towards in some aspects. If people want to roll search and spot, go ahead.
I am not sure what Absolute is doing with you at the moment, but I think, if your character is out in the open, spot and search checks can and should be used, especially if your spying and gathering information.
Mainly what I trying to say is, because you have posted on the forums telling people to not roll spot and searches because you don't want to become a KOS suspect, is a bit unfair to all the other people who are trying to do the same as you. Also, you can't exactly tell people OCC on the forums to leave you alone, can you?
Thats just how I feel it looks like your trying to do - I would even say you were probably making it worse by putting all this in the forums, as now, when you go near the fire, spot and roll checks will prop up from half the people there.

I think it is fair to say that everyone has different play styles, but at the end of the day I would encourage any rolls on the server to be made in any situation you are in, and remember it's a game

[Gairun]

"I think it is fair to say that everyone has different play styles, but at the end of the day I would encourage any rolls on the server to be made in any situation you are in, and remember it's a game "

Dune, while I respect the fact that you may enjoy lots of dice rolls it's important to remember we are on a Role-Play server, not a Roll-Play server. If you need me to elaborate my point I will gladly

[serjester]

Loitering is Punishable by Fisticuffs

So my character is minding his own business, loitering (and perhaps occasionally cutting a purse-string), in the Exigo Trading Post. All of a sudden a halfling rogue, we'll call him "Dan", uncloaks right behind my character and beats him into submission with his knobby little halfling fists. After sneak attacking my character into unconsciousness (I am level 3), my character stands up and is berated with a barrage of interrogative insults and accusations. "Dan" presumes my character to be a member of the Mask of Shar? WTF? No, I am not now nor have ever been a member of the Communist Party -- or the Mask of Shar for that matter. Can't a thief make an honest living stealing from others without being accused of grand conspiracies?

[Shadoweaver]

So my character is minding his own business, loitering (and perhaps occasionally cutting a purse-string), in the Exigo Trading Post. All of a sudden a halfling rogue, we'll call him "Dan", uncloaks right behind my character and beats him into submission with his knobby little halfling fists. After sneak attacking my character into unconsciousness (I am level 3), my character stands up and is berated with a barrage of interrogative insults and accusations. "Dan" presumes my character to be a member of the Mask of Shar? WTF? No, I am not now nor have ever been a member of the Communist Party -- or the Mask of Shar for that matter. Can't a thief make an honest living stealing from others without being accused of grand conspiracies?

In the first place, this doesn't belong here, why you posted it here god only knows. In the second place, SerJester has 2 characters I know of, one named "Commoner" and one named "Merchant" he dresses them as commoners and merchants and uses his names as a metagaming disguise so he can pickpocket people. IMHO, he's a jerk, these characters should be deleted, and his account banned for some period of time.

Shad

[CharacterInWhite]

not hide, disguise should be limited to rogue type characters otherwise monks, rangers and several sub-classes become masters of disguise which is no part of their skill set

I have a tendency to disagree. The reason I'm most commonly seen wearing the garb of commoners is because I'm still potent without equipment. All Monks are. That's why they're great for spying and assassinating - because you wouldn't pick them out from any other commoner until they were bearing down on your neck.

I can see your point that other classes that aren't normally designed for that purpose would benefit strangely.

[CharacterInWhite]

I think the way you have said 'Leave the Spots and Searches for another time' is quite against what the server strives towards in some aspects. If people want to roll search and spot, go ahead.
I am not sure what Absolute is doing with you at the moment, but I think, if your character is out in the open, spot and search checks can and should be used, especially if your spying and gathering information.
Mainly what I trying to say is, because you have posted on the forums telling people to not roll spot and searches because you don't want to become a KOS suspect, is a bit unfair to all the other people who are trying to do the same as you. Also, you can't exactly tell people OCC on the forums to leave you alone, can you?
Thats just how I feel it looks like your trying to do - I would even say you were probably making it worse by putting all this in the forums, as now, when you go near the fire, spot and roll checks will prop up from half the people there.

I think it is fair to say that everyone has different play styles, but at the end of the day I would encourage any rolls on the server to be made in any situation you are in, and remember it's a game

Yes, it's a game, and I play it to have fun. Your point might possess more validity if the 'Evil' community was bigger than 3 people. Being marked KOS is bad for two reasons:

1) That also violates the servers consensual PvP philosophy.
2) Who am I supposed to RP with?

I said, by all means, they have a right to picking me out when they're talking business. But when I walk in, eating from a fruit basket, I see no reason to be singled out from other commoners, especially when I'm purposefully avoiding attention.

[Shadoweaver]

I have a tendency to disagree. The reason I'm most commonly seen wearing the garb of commoners is because I'm still potent without equipment. All Monks are. That's why they're great for spying and assassinating - because you wouldn't pick them out from any other commoner until they were bearing down on your neck.

I can see your point that other classes that aren't normally designed for that purpose would benefit strangely.

If you want to be a spy or assasin, take a level in rogue or assasin. Thats what they are for. Disguise should be a charisma based skill, not dex based. This just brings me back to my point though, we are going to disagree on the details, thats why we need a neutral third party to make a ruling.

Shad

[Kangleton]

A) To roll spot, or search, or wisdom, or anything you want in regards to detecting a disguise, you must first have a reason to do so. I mean, seriously, when you walk around in real life, are you constantly looking people up and down, to detect the remote possibility that they are an evil cultist? I don't. However, if I was talking with a friend of mine in a hard-to-reach location about something very private, I would perhaps inspect anyone who would intrude upon me quite thuroughly.

Therefore, it would only make sense that, while Oshala or anyone else is sitting on a tree stump, at the local trading outpost, with goods to trade, eating an apple, that you don't suspect her of being a cultist. Hundreds of people, realistically, would be using that trading outpost throughout the day, and there are stranger things than farmers that walk by, yet its the farm girl that everyone keeps rolling spot checks for. If you walked into a convenience store in reality and investigated the presence of every shopper, you'd look pretty stupid.

B) Why the hell should Rogues and Assassins be the only ones who can disguise themselves? That doesn't even make any sense. Why should someone be required to take a class to be able to use a single RP component of it? Maybe we should start telling Wizards that they can't use weapons because they aren't Fighters, and that Fighters can't elect to use only their fists, because they aren't Monks. Why must I take a class that gives me sneak attacks, lock picking, trap crafting, trap setting, trap disarming, stealthiness, evasiveness, and much more, just so I can put a hood and say that I'm disguised?

Rogues might be able to get a bonus to it, though I say with certainty that anyone can disguise themself. I can, you can, and so can your neighbour. With that said, I'm pretty sure a Wizard can, a Bard can, and even a Weapon Master can... I say this on the authority that all of this things are far more powerful, capable, and resourseful than you, me, and your nieghbour; yet all three of us can put on a hood and change our voices anyways. Anyone can disguise their character, no matter the class. Try basing the disguise on the RP involved, rather than the numbers on the character sheet.

C) The server is under development, and the playerbase can be quite small at times - even the majority of times. With such a small amount of people, an even smaller fraction shall be evil. Of the evil people, an even smaller fraction will belong to a single unit. As was stated, this number equates to something like three, in the case of the followers of Shar. Yeah, there are disadvantages to being evil, but guess what; when all those disadvantages lead to evil getting slaughtered without hope, or without even the ability to properly RP the situation... evil will quit, since all of their reasons for playing will be unfulfilled. Potentially, when I say quit, I don't just mean the character will give up, but perhaps even the player. And then what? Will it be fun? Will you have accomplished something positive? No.

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It is presently 2:45 am. Why do I always pick these times to write? I don't know. If I'm making a fool of myself, please inform me with an offensive and blunt post in response... however, if I am as coherent as I think I might be right now, then the above post summarizes my opinions on the matter.

[Aries1918]

I'd have to agree that she should be able to disguise herself, and not only rogues/assassins. Its not like she is like Igneous or something. Could you see him try to disguise himself?

[Konchuu]

A) To roll spot, or search, or wisdom, or anything you want in regards to detecting a disguise, you must first have a reason to do so. I mean, seriously, when you walk around in real life, are you constantly looking people up and down, to detect the remote possibility that they are an evil cultist? I don't. However, if I was talking with a friend of mine in a hard-to-reach location about something very private, I would perhaps inspect anyone who would intrude upon me quite thuroughly.

Well when is comes to search you are right but spot and wisdom? Spot is a skill that is done automatically, i mean if you see a coin on the ground you were not necessary trying to find anything you just happed to spot it. Same with wisdom, your not trying to be wise you just are.