How does UMD work?

[Xanderleo]

The DC rating is supposed to be determined from the value of the object, which is not how scrolls are working now.

Well, that's how its supposed to work in the game engine. In PnP it works on the DC system for scrolls and chargeable items, which seems to be calculated correctly. Except critical failure means accidental discharge on the user and a whole other host of fun mishaps

I could be wrong but I believe these rules were implemented to discourage people from taking two cross class points in UMD and being able to cast every spell in existence from a scroll.

That said, perhaps it could be relaxed some ... though I don't think it's necessarily a priority.

[Tassafina]

Well, that's how its supposed to work in the game engine. In PnP it works on the DC system for scrolls and chargeable items, which seems to be calculated correctly. Except critical failure means accidental discharge on the user and a whole other host of fun mishaps

I could be wrong but I believe these rules were implemented to discourage people from taking two cross class points in UMD and being able to cast every spell in existence from a scroll.

That said, perhaps it could be relaxed some ... though I don't think it's necessarily a priority.

Yes I agree some changes were needed, just not the extreme one we have now. I would much rather had it so that only Rogues and Bards got this skill like in NWN1 or at least they get a bonus.

[Xanderleo]

That seems to be a good way of handling it.

[rustediron]

I think the DC for rogues is fine for now... 50% chance casting lev1 scroll? perhaps a bit harsh-ish, but that sounds realistic doesn't it?

[lordmaple]

I've never really had a problem with it. I use the ability quite a lot, too.

[Kangleton]

That is a bit too harsh, since it makes the skill semi-useless. Perhaps it should scale with the level of the spell - an inherent percentage chance of failure per spell level of, say, 10% might work.

1st level would have 10% chance of failure, 2nd would have 20%, and so on and so forth. That way, it is pretty easy to perform minor feats with scrolls, but almost impossible to manage complex performances. But that might not be possible, if the whole thing is hardcoded.

[Tassafina]

I think the DC for rogues is fine for now... 50% chance casting lev1 scroll? perhaps a bit harsh-ish, but that sounds realistic doesn't it?

This is 50% chance for a level 10 Rogue with max UMD, level 10 is high level for Sundren. This of course makes it impossible for any non Rogue or Bard as they would have to be level 20 with max UMD for even this much. Which I dont mind but if your going to make it impossible for non Rogues why not just set it so they cant take it in the first place and leave UMD the way it was? Nobody every had a problem with UMD in NWN1 from my experience of playing. Its just now that everyone can do it people have problems with it.

[rustediron]

UMD, it's a nifty skill I expl- I mean make use of a lot. So yes, it's very cool.

But what I was saying is, that you'd think rogues would have a hard time reading even level 1 scrolls. It seems somewhat realistic that way.

Also, another point. Consider the level 4 rogue that has 19 dex. He then buys the bracer things, bumping it up to 20. He has a UMD skill, of say 8. He wears some studded leather, probably the bone links from the goblin chieftain.

That's a fairly decent 19-21 AC, depending on Tumble and Luck of Heroes. Now we add in the adventurers best friend: barkskin potion. That puts it up to 22-25. This is pretty good, though maybe a bit above what you'd think from a level 4.

So you say maybe 10% chance of failure for level 1 spells. With the odds that high, I believe the following is possible (I may be wrong):

Now we put in 2 level 1 spells: mage armour and shield. I believe mage armour gives +1 only as 1 is cancelled by the shield, another by the barkskin, and yet another by the magical armour. Then the shield gives +4.

So what do we have now? 27-30 AC? from a level 4?
And what happens if we're crazy enough to equip a tower shield? 31-34?

This is bearing in mind most EKs find themselves capped at 35 AC-ish, even at level 12.

[Tassafina]

UMD, it's a nifty skill I expl- I mean make use of a lot. So yes, it's very cool.

But what I was saying is, that you'd think rogues would have a hard time reading even level 1 scrolls. It seems somewhat realistic that way.

Also, another point. Consider the level 4 rogue that has 19 dex. He then buys the bracer things, bumping it up to 20. He has a UMD skill, of say 8. He wears some studded leather, probably the bone links from the goblin chieftain.

That's a fairly decent 19-21 AC, depending on Tumble and Luck of Heroes. Now we add in the adventurers best friend: barkskin potion. That puts it up to 22-25. This is pretty good, though maybe a bit above what you'd think from a level 4.

So you say maybe 10% chance of failure for level 1 spells. With the odds that high, I believe the following is possible (I may be wrong):

Now we put in 2 level 1 spells: mage armour and shield. I believe mage armour gives +1 only as 1 is cancelled by the shield, another by the barkskin, and yet another by the magical armour. Then the shield gives +4.

So what do we have now? 27-30 AC? from a level 4?
And what happens if we're crazy enough to equip a tower shield? 31-34?

This is bearing in mind most EKs find themselves capped at 35 AC-ish, even at level 12.

Well half the stuff you mention here doesnt have anything to do with UMD and would apply to any character for getting good AC. You dont need UMD to use the equipment you mention or to use potions. To get the AC you would need to spend like 300 gold at least per buff..and a tower shield? If your going to use that why dont you just make a fighter and wear plate mail? The two spells which you mention, which is the only thing that uses UMD doesnt equal to the difference between chain and plate.

[rustediron]

lol, the I put the tower shield in there just for show. The plus 5 AC from the scrolls is still quite a lot.

And the buffs cost like 20 stags, if I remember correctly.

[Kangleton]

It still doesnt bring it to the value of a plate and shield, and that heavy stuff is permanent AC, rather than duration-based like the scrolls are.

Therefore, in this example, UMD isn't overpowered. I only think it gets overpowered when a Rogue outcasts a wizard.

[Tassafina]

It still doesnt bring it to the value of a plate and shield, and that heavy stuff is permanent AC, rather than duration-based like the scrolls are.

Therefore, in this example, UMD isn't overpowered. I only think it gets overpowered when a Rogue outcasts a wizard.

Yes I agree...though dont think we really need to worry about Rogues outcasting wizards anytime soon. The few high level scrolls that are available are pretty expensive and they are not found in loot anywhere near as often as they used to be.

[rustediron]

*shrugs* fair enough, who am I to talk, I abuse that skill insanely anyway.