Death on Sundren

[Tassafina]

Are characters conciously aware of what these Signus things do? If my character had one, would he be able to tell himself:

"I can do whatever I want because I have two lives, hahahaahah. Yay for me, and such!"

Well not if he was smart he wouldnt...just cause a cat has nine lives doesnt mean they should waste one...for someday they will be down to one and then their is no comming back unless they a lucky kitty indeeds.

[Inconsiderable]

I think its abit too harsh right now. As player (not saying this is the perfect or good way), I have to adapt which means...

...the moment I have a higher level, I will do lots of (!) dungeon runs in "lower level" areas to get easy/easier gold, I wouldnt do normally.
...avoid any PvP as long as I am not sure I win it.
...not even minor risks in PvE, not even risks I would take anyday in PnP. In PnP you dont error/disc and any DM is more forgiving than a computerengine.

Sound like the kind of boring gameplay I dont like. Getting a free signus every month or every 2-4 weeks up to a maximum of 3 would be enough already to help the situation. An engine death every 30 days in NWN is "okay".

[Machiavelli]

The current intention, or so I've been told, is that both Signus Stones and Diamonds will be going into the loot table. This means that the cost may not be as great as it seems, and that people may occasionally also be picking up get-out-of-death-free cards as loot drops once this gets implemented.

[undeadsteak]

"Oh no, now if we die theres a good chance we can't come back!" All I can say is: Welcome to Adventuring? >>

[dashminus]

The current intention, or so I've been told, is that both Signus Stones and Diamonds will be going into the loot table. This means that the cost may not be as great as it seems, and that people may occasionally also be picking up get-out-of-death-free cards as loot drops.

Oh I see, lure us out to the evil dungeon, in hopes of finding precious diamonds and Community Chest cards, then laugh as we all pay a long visit to that big shadowy creature thing!


Congrats on your DM-ship BTW.

[Mighty_Draco]

Well, judging by what I've seen and heard, dying is bad now. I'll try to avoid it. I'm usually pretty good at avoiding dying too. Although I've cut it uncomfortably close, I haven't died with the new system yet. I don't see how I could come back at all if I did.

One suggestion I have is though, you might want to scale the diamonds on the level of the dead person. So, say 1 diamond per level. 5000 is a lot for a level 5 character. 10,000 is a lot for a level 10 (I think) . And the difference between the 16,000 it is and 15,000 shouldn't be too significant for a level 15.

[CharacterInWhite]

Hmm, perhaps I might no longer be the only pacifist on the server.

[Scavar]

That's why I'm an artist, so I don't have to get so close to dying so often.

[Raksha]

Well, my $0.02, as a cleric I feel it will greatly diminish my quality of play. I don't see nerfs on other spellcasters so why hit the clerics with the raise dead and resurrection penalty. Should mages require diamonds to cast say fireball, fod, hellball, etc? Reaching a level that gives a cleric the power to cast resurection is one of the cool things about being a cleric. As a non grinder, I say grab your stones and throw out the grinders if you dont like them. Dont penalize everyone for a few you dont like.
Permadeath is fine by me, I like making new characters anyway, and that would at least keep fresh faces around constantly. But it is a fantasy adventure roleplay game, I particularly like the fantasy part.
I havent experience this new death system, but if its going to delevel my cleric and cost me a fortune to perform a spell Ive worked hard to attain, well then it doesnt sound fair to me.
My $0.02, thats all. CYA in game.

Luck in Battle,

Marv

Few points. First of all, yes, it costs a fortune to cast. The idea is that you get the other one, or friends or loved ones, to pay you the cost. Because raise dead is so much more cost-effective than going to the temple, you will become -more- valuable, not less. This will be even more apparent with resurrection.

Second of all, clerics and divine casters in general are already dominant when it comes to surviving to get to those higher levels. Consistently high armor class, self-healing and such to lessen supply costs, the ability to consistently outfight fighters, etc. give divine casters plenty of an edge when it comes to not dying.

The current people that fall between the cracks of the new system are generally between level 6 and level 9, having just passed the border for the signuses but not having enough character wealth or recognition to guarantee resurrection, and also probably not playing the server on times when signuses and the like are handed out. I play fairly frequently, and do my very best to RP my heart out, and have yet to even smell of one -- there are also probably others in a similar situation.

In general, the new death system isn't workable in the long run as it is right now, because it requires things in the way of DM intervention and high-level clerics that aren't on in daytime hours -- anyone who doesn't play at peak times is going to be pretty hard-pressed not to sit for a long time. However, with diamonds and signuses and better loot tables in Sundren's future, it will be more workable because it will become more player-driven.

[Stormlord]

The new death system is not a Cleric nerf at all. Instead, it makes Clerics more important because they have a much lower Diamond-const as any other way of resurrecting SCs. Maybe it would be a useful addition to drop the cost down to around 5-6 Diamonds when the SC is being resurrected by a SC in a temple.

Apart of that, I've really seen that the new death system seems to work as intended as almost every player says:"Hey, I am afraid of death now. I don't go to dungeon X because there is a chance my SC will die and I can't get him resurrected instantly." Players don't like this because its way off the regular ways of penalizing death, especially because there are no Signus' or Diamonds in the loot, yet. I assume that, as soon as Signus' and Diamonds will be available within monster loot, the system will get more acceptance by players though it has be seen how those drops will impact the game economy.

My own opinion on the death system is, that its not tooharsh. Yes, if you wan't to play on Sundren mostly as a Soloplayer, 16 000 gp seems really a lot. But remember that this only reflects a very essential part of game (and real world too) logic: Why would one person be able to achieve the same what would otherwise take several players to complete ? You want to play a lone wolf character, then you should take an increased difficulty into account. Nothing gets easier if you are alone, even if you are the bright Archon, that defends the peak of Mount Celestia.

Lowering the cost to a level where players say "Yeah, I can live with that" also means to put the whole intend in the system into an absurd state. Where is the penalty when everyone can afford death easily ?
Remember, even though Faerun is a land full of magic, death is something most people just can't avoid. Every D&D pc game breaks with this rule instead. Resurrection is something only High Clerics are usually capable of and even then, the cost of raising someone from the dead are very high hence there isn't even a 100% possibility that the ritual will work. If a dead SC isn't raised in the spot, the chances of getting him back to life decreases heavily with time passing by.

The new death system reflects the harshness of death very good and makes people think more about their actions ingame. Will they still play the all-out-destruction Talos cleric if there is a good risk they will be executed in the spot and then not be able to come back to life again instantly ? Will the bright full plate Tyr Paladin still try to strike down any foe in the name of justice or will there apparently be situations where both have to ask themselves if a suicide mission is really worth the risk ?

Everything, PvE and PvP becomes more exciting through this. I personally had a situation with the new death system where I couldn't avoid death and in this situation a DM raised me without penalty instead.

So I would give the system a fair amount of time before complaining that much. Try to adapt and get used to it. Wait for the Signus' and Crystals to be in the loot and get ther drop rate balanced. I bet most complains will cease then.

Just because its different and puts you into a mere Risk vs. Reward thinking doesn't mean it can be fun. Ask the EVE Online Community, they got used to it already.

Regards,

- Stormlord

[Peridan]

Now, I'm not complaining, because I know all too well what becomes of those who whine in the Sundren forums. However, I just wanted to point something that may or may not be relevant, and perhaps I'm simply too tired to think of an obvious (to those who read this) solution.

Now, I am getting the message that the DM's want us to fear death. Ok, we fear it, congratulations. We are now far more timid and will not boldly go where no man has gone before. But I ask, what is the alternative? We sit around all day and talk to one another? We rp what, our exciting time taking a bath the day earlier? "Aye, you should have seen the current, almost swept me away before I took hold of a branch and clung for dear life" If the creators of this game wanted us to experience the hard-core, down and dirty facts of real life, why would they create the game in the first place? I mean, instead of classes such as fighter, or wizard, or cleric, why didn't they implement classes of fisherman, or carpenter, or merchant? This game was made for adventuring, for living whatever life we choose in an exciting environment.

Now I'm not saying that higher restrictions on death are bad. I know for a fact that the worst possible torture for me was to regain all of that hard-won experience, gnoll by flea-bitten gnoll. If my character was simply dead, it would be far easier for me to simply make a new one. There is always an excitement inherent in making a new character that never grows old. But to effectively create perma-death, while not actually being perma-death is just too cruel. Teasing us with the slight hope that we may or may not be revived, sometime in the near future, I mean really.

Now, if the loot becomes more steady, such as a gem every few weeks or so, I'd be fine with that. But I'm bordering on complaining, and I swear I'm trying my hardest not to. I trust the DM's in whatever decision they make. Probably the reason I've been on this server so long, lol. And if you're still reading, ignore the above post and move on, this is only the ramblings of a kid who hasn't slept in the last 26 hours.

[Saulus]

If the creators of this game wanted us to experience the hard-core, down and dirty facts of real life, why would they create the game in the first place? I mean, instead of classes such as fighter, or wizard, or cleric, why didn't they implement classes of fisherman, or carpenter, or merchant? This game was made for adventuring, for living whatever life we choose in an exciting environment.

Well if you really want to bitch about that we could have just made it perma-death.

[valenator]

Party up. Fight smarter. Use balance. Many players here have cut their teeth on death systems far less forgiving than the one in place here, but continued advancement does involve relying on other players and approaching combat with strategy and roles to play. This system isn't unfair or discouraging. I can't fathom all the complaints.

Now:

Also ask your party members to use .subdual when you enter combat areas that use confusion spells or other types of mind altering spells on those poor weak willed tanks. It will save your butt!

I don't know how the staff feels about this, but this made me go, "WHAT?!" This seems like it'd be grossly abusing the game mechanics, but I might be errant in that opinion.

[Scourn]

I had the same effect when reading the use .subdual post also, that shouldnt be done. And the people who are saying its a nerf obvisouly have nothing better to do then cry instead of looking at it correctly. It makes clerics now more important. Which is exacally what they should be in a society. They talk to and ger powers from the gods, the supreame rulers of the world. So hell yes their social status should be in high regards. Its harsh because it was a joke before, now its made the world a whole lot better

[rustediron]

I don't know how the staff feels about this, but this made me go, "WHAT?!" This seems like it'd be grossly abusing the game mechanics, but I might be errant in that opinion.

It made me lol. Genius idea xD