confused

[Korvoc]

was wondering how a dex based char that has to use 0 based armors is of any use . they end up with low ac compared to str based chars that get the benifit of fullplate with plus 1 on it. it seems you have no choice but to mix cleric in with all your builds to end up with a decent ac for a dex based char.

Edit: cool and thanks to all who answered my question. guess i'm just used to nwn1 lol. plus new to this server and will take a bit of getting used to it thats all. I have a new question though. In the Gods and pantheons there is listed the Mulhorandi pantheon, was wondering how you acess these gods seeing that they dont come up in the list of gods you chose from on char creation.

[Fajitaduke]

Consider that not every character class is intended to serve the same function, and dex-based character by and large aren't intended to be front-line fighters. That said, I think there are three general ways to enter combat as a dex-based character.

1. Be an archer and rely on dex bonuses to hit with your ranged weapon (no damage bonus, but you're also not subject to the heavy hits, so its a tradeoff). Not terribly efective when solo.

2. Sneak-attacking scout character, do heavy damage and slink off during a fight (using high dex reflex saves to avoid getting killed by AoOs), returning when stealthed or the enemy is distracted. To be clear, I don't mean to do this solo.

3. Pump your dex every four levels and add magical supplements to boost your AC (not really feasible in low magic worlds like Sundren).

Bottom line - if you play a dex character, you're a valuable asset to a party, but its tougher to strike out on your own. Could be worse - try solo'ing as a low-level mage.

Lesson learned: join a party for fun and profit!

[ipsissimus]

Dex = saves, skills, AC, to hit melee (with feat), to hit ranged, AC, init (not that it helps much)

Str = skills, to hit melee, damage, carry load

Why do you need a cleric level? Buy potions, scrolls, bring a friend along.

Has your DEX reached that high a score where you have no choice but to wear 0 based armor?

[Blue_Wyrm]

Good day Korvoc,

To answer your question, even dexterity-based classes such as the Rogue will want to wear a piece of light armor to "complete" his AC total. That's because the "Maximum Dexterity Bonus" on armor will allow, for exemple, a Rogue with a +3 Dexterity modifier to use a Studded Leather Armor (+3 Armor AC, Max Dex Bonus +5) while still enjoying his +3 Dodge AC from his Dexterity (he could even have as much as +5 to his Dexterity and still not lose Dodge AC because of his armor).

The only melee classes I know of that do not use any armor at all are the Monks and the Duelists. Monks also add their Wisdom to AC, and Duelists their Intelligence. They both lose their respective bonuses if they wear any armor, and have other class features which use unhindered movement.

EDIT: As it was said above those classes tend to be team players, as they cannot solo effectively. I would like to add that Sundren is definitely ~not~ a server intended for soloing anyway; group play will be increasingly encouraged as new mechanics are introduced into the server.

[Rhifox]

All the classes that require you to wear 0-based cloth armor have a feat that makes up for it by giving at least 2+ AC (equivalent of regular leather) by having decently high points in the appropriate stat (wisdom for monks, intelligence for duelists and invisible blades). Combined with the AC from dex can allow you to hit fairly high AC.

[GodBeastX]

Pfft, monks get huge AC if you go full monk with dex primary. Let's consider:

Monk at level 1 (16 dex 16 wis)

10 Base AC
3 Dex AC
3 Wis AC

16 AC Total

Monk at Level 20 (21 Dex 16 Wis)

10 Base AC
2 Tumble AC
5 Dex AC
3 Wis AC
4 Base Monk AC (Feat Bonus)

24 AC Total


Let's Consider Fighter with Full Plate (12 Dex)

10 Base AC
8 Armor AC
1 Dex AC

19 AC Total


Level 20

10 Base AC
8 Armor AC
1 Dex AC
1 Tumble AC?

19 or 20 AC Total


Depending how you build your monk too, you can gain 2 weapon fighting AC (+2 Max) if you use dual Kamas. Monk can be superior AC in the end however, especially since +wis and +dex gear will always stack your AC, where fighters don't get that benefit. Your DPS won't be as huge as others though, but you'll definitely outlast others in melee combat and with Spell Resist out your ass... well, there you go.

[ipsissimus]

Don't forget the add the fighter's tower shield. only because it's all to common a sight and they are the only class that begins with prof. in it.

They are both heavily dependent on equipment, just at different levels does their dependency change.

I prefer the monk though.

[GodBeastX]

I didn't add tower shield because alot of fighters are 2H weapon users. And like I said, that AC difference is easily overcame by monk. Going cleric is pointless and gimping a monk with 3.5 rules, cuz buffs don't stack with items you'll get in the world, and trust me, sundren will have +wis and +dex items available. The benefit of a fighter is NOT AC, it's their AB and utility.

[Fajitaduke]

Is 2H a good way to go with the fighter?

I gather dual wielding is less so, due to all the feats required that (some of which) a ranger would get for free.

I like the tower shield AC bonus, but I've never used one outside of a dwarven defender I played on an NWN1 server. They just look awkward.

On the other hand, if there was a proper one-handed spear in the game, it would look pretty sweet to use with a tower shield ala an ancient phalanx warrior.

[Xanderleo]

Is 2H a good way to go with the fighter?

I gather dual wielding is less so, due to all the feats required that (some of which) a ranger would get for free.

I like the tower shield AC bonus, but I've never used one outside of a dwarven defender I played on an NWN1 server. They just look awkward.

On the other hand, if there was a proper one-handed spear in the game, it would look pretty sweet to use with a tower shield ala an ancient phalanx warrior.

It's a trade off and an issue of taste. Less attacks than dual wield but with power attack it can deal impressive damage due to the Str + 1/2 bonus for two-handing plus power attack bonus x 2.

For example...if you have an 18 strength two-handing a medium or heavy weapon using power attack you'll get + 12 to damage.

You can weild a spear single handed with the Monkey grip feat at -2 attack. However, couple that with a tower shield that gives -2 to attack as well and you suffer a bit.

But, it's worth it if that's what you want for your character

[Fajitaduke]

It's a trade off and an issue of taste. Less attacks than dual wield but with power attack it can deal impressive damage due to the Str + 1/2 bonus for two-handing plus power attack bonus x 2.

For example...if you have an 18 strength two-handing a medium or heavy weapon using power attack you'll get + 12 to damage.

You can weild a spear single handed with the Monkey grip feat at -2 attack. However, couple that with a tower shield that gives -2 to attack as well and you suffer a bit.

But, it's worth it if that's what you want for your character

Got it, thanks.

On the spear front, one of my favorite characters in an NWN1 server was a Chultan hunter (barbarian), and the spear as a 2-handed weapon seemed wrong to me for such a character (as did the animation). Monkey grip might be a good solution for that character, with a regular shield rather than a tower.

Now, a fighter in full plate with a tower shield and a monkey-gripped pike (polearm in NWN2?) would look pretty cool. A compliment of Sundren phalanxers walking around would be an intimindating sight.

[Machiavelli]

Dex based Eldritch knight has none of these problems... you wear 0ac stuff cos that's all you can wear, but you can dual wield and still have uber-ac and kick ass!

Oh... and just an opinion, but I reckon the tower shields in NWN2 are very ugly indeed

[ipsissimus]

there's one particular tower shield available in Sundren that looks awesome, nothing special about it except cool points.

[GodBeastX]

Tower Shields are bugged right now though. You're supposed to suffer AB when you wear one. I tend to RP that I do suffer from it, hence you'll never see my chars using a tower shield.

I personally feel the 2H Greatsword is badassity in it's finest. Simply put, a character like Ahkivasha, for instance, who isn't even as power built as most (I bothered upping intellect and charisma and crap), is using a +1 Sword, and has improved power attack with a 2x crit hits over 70dmg on crits regularly and can do slightly over 80. Now, if I did monkey grip and 1h, it's be about 50 - 60 max with about a regular crit damage of 40. Without the -AB and crap, that's a big hit

[Machiavelli]

Tower Shields are bugged right now though. You're supposed to suffer AB when you wear one.

The attack pealty isn't applied?!?... that would explain why everyone uses them