Concerning Tiefling

[Warfire]

This is what happens to me every time so far. And each time, it makes me think OOC whether it is worth even trying to RP the situation knowing that there will be three people who are going to say "aww this tiefling is ok, we have been talking to it for 10 minutes with no trouble." On a few occassions, I simpley pass the camp alltogether to avoid it.

That is part of what happens with people. Not everyone thinks the same. Jaus will give people the benefit of the doubt. Sure, he knows the history, and warns Tieflings not to do anything to him, his comrades or anything like that. After that he will scold people. That is just who he is. It happens.

Edit: And if you don't want that to happen, Tieflings should give reasons to be hated, again, then.

[undeadsteak]

Jaus, i can understand n all, he likes to study em n stuff.. But every single person in Sundren?

[Gothic Rose]

Jaus, i can understand n all, he likes to study em n stuff.. But every single person in Sundren?

No.

PCs are not even 1/10th the populace. You're adjudicating how NPCs believe, and that's not your place.

Stop worrying about what other people are thinking and how they act. It's not your business, it's theirs. If you want to hate tieflings, then have your character hate away But whining about how other players don't do things the way you think they should be done is not constructive.

[undeadsteak]

Perhaps, but PCs have grown up with commoners. Yet for some reason all of them treat Tieflings like bunnys? And lots of people whined about Warlocks not being treated meanly. The DMs did it, now everyone is doing so. Tieflings are pretty much Disliked and Hated too. So what your saying is, everyone can dissaprove if somone treats a warlock or Drow with kindness, but it can't be the same for tieflings??? Just because tieflings haven't been brought up in the forums before about being evil and hated?

[Gothic Rose]

Perhaps, but PCs have grown up with commoners. Yet for some reason all of them treat Tieflings like bunnys? And lots of people whined about Warlocks not being treated meanly. The DMs did it, now everyone is doing so. Tieflings are pretty much Disliked and Hated too. So what your saying is, everyone can dissaprove if somone treats a warlock or Drow with kindness, but it can't be the same for tieflings??? Just because tieflings haven't been brought up in the forums before about being evil and hated?

I'm not saying anything of the sort. I'm saying that you should be more concerned with what your own character thinks and believes, and not what other peoples characters think and believe.

You do not have any say over how other people think, react, and act. Getting in an uproar about it is pointless.

Not everyone is nice to tieflings. Not everyone hates warlocks. Not everyone kills drow on sight. You're making blanket assumptions about what other people are doing and not only is that wrong to do, the assumptions are incorrect as well.

[Kaybrie]

This isn't Fear of a Black Planet. This is fear of the Grim Reaper. I bet you'd ALL act just a bit different if you had just one life to live, or if the death of your charcter invalidated your copy of NWN2, or meant never logging in to Sundren for 1 month, etc.

*Hip thrusts Lallendos' statement* Kyoko dosn't put her life on the line for anyone else, for any reason, save for one night when I was inebriated when she stepped out of camp. Otherwise, does not grind, does not kill monsters, enjoys gambling and insulting random adventurers, your statement is wrong! I always RP as though I had one life to live.

On with the conversation at hand...

Undeadsteak, seriously, this entire thread is about you being told to do something in-character and taking it out of character, so in the traditional words of every experienced roleplayer; Back in character!

[dashminus]

I wasn't here for the whole "warlocks are bad, so start treating them as such" debate, but from what I have heard, it does bear some resemblance to this situation.

I think by default based on description, tieflings should be treated harshly when they are first met. It is clearly written in the book, "Those who know their ancestory IMMEDIATELY consider most tieflings evil and untrustworthy." Most meaning those that you do not know.
So if you happen to know one and have known it for some time, I would say that trust may have been earned. But sitting around the fire and chatting for ten minutes hardly qualifies as saying "I know this one, this ones ok."

I guess my point is, when a new player arrives as a tiefling, should they not be treated as possibly evil or untrustworthy first?

[Kaybrie]

No, he laughed at them, and later there were awards created named after him regarding said adventurers.

[dashminus]

And if you are trusting of people of demon blood, I want my DMs to reward you with -25XP per incident. That is -minus- twenty five.

Does that mean +25 exp for those of us that treat them badly?

[dashminus]

Dash. That is indeed the rule. Adventurers rest. Tell me. In a situation where you are 5 feet from someone of demon- blood origins, are you REALLY going to turn your back to them and hit the bedroll?

You fools wouldn't last 10 minutes if I bothered to DM.....

Maybe I will get back to it.

Hell NO I wouldn't!

Just like I have done in-game, I draw my weapon, and force them out of camp (with the usual "leanve it alone, it is nice" crowd yelling at me).


But I wouldn't mind a +25 exp drop for everytime I chase one out.

[dashminus]

btw, dash, treating them badly is painting with a broad brush. There -is- XP for Good RP. I would prefer folks simply try to be "different" in just a few less areas.

I was simply generalizing for the sake of brevity.

[Warfire]

I guess my point is, when a new player arrives as a tiefling, should they not be treated as possibly evil or untrustworthy first?

If your character cares, yes, then they should be treated evil and untrustworthy. If your character is neutral, who cares? Evil? Possible ally.

Blanket statements on this thread are starting to make me feel cornered in the fact you all are giving it quite a narrow background view per character basis.

I think this is what should be taken into consideration when dealing with a this.

Your Alignment:
Your Age:
Your Experience (Traveling):
Your Experience and Knowledge (Tiefling):
Your Experience (Evil):
Your Beliefs:

It's a person by person view. Hardened adventurer will have made his own views by now concerning all that.

Turning it so that people are getting patted on the back for going with the blanket is asinine. Putting specific views in this is asinine. Defining a rule on this would be asinine.

Lallendos, I respect you, but to say something like that made me frown. If you want the player-base to be up in arms on Tieflings, Warlocks and all that, make it so that the people of Sundren remember who they are and their ilk. Don't influence it with praises in the open, or rewards, and force it. If the character is frowned on society for trusting a Tiefling, let that character reap what he sows. If he ends up getting murdered, scammed or pinned as evil; it's the characters responsibility and the DMs can have that reflected by the people with immediate distrust or "That guy works with the Tieflings! GET 'IM!"

[GodBeastX]

Roll Lore: 40

You know that Devil blood in a tiefling does not force them to be evil. So, what do you do?

A player like that is not going to hate tieflings simply because "The're the boogey men."

You witness a tiefling getting the crap stomped out of him by a man. Later when this man is in need, the tiefling comes to his aid.

A person like this might question his teachings about tieflings.



People ARE going to form their own opinions. That's life. Build a bridge and get over it. Lallen and the post above mine are basically players are forming opinions unrealistically. Lallendos is challenging people to be more realistic with others. He's saying it's a life or death world, now what do you do?

Here is examples of unrealism I find in Sundren that I would love people to correct:

1) Mouthing Off

This one makes me just want to perm people the moment I see it. I'm not saying you should cower, or even be afraid of the other guy, but the absence of any form of honor in people's thinking makes me just want to massacre some players.

You are not allowed to say whatever you want to other people and live. Sometimes people dig for insults in words, and that pisses me off too, but when someone walks up to you and starts stuff with their mouth? To me that's just BEGGING to have it shut. Maybe people need to go back to Medieval times and consider what insulting a lady in public would do in some places ^_^

Mouthing off = Begging to have it shut

2) Fearlessness

I spawned an army of bog zombies, and a wraith knight, watched a player run in circles going "HOORAY! THIS IS FUN!" He was CR4. I actually spawned a Wraith Knight on him to kill him, but the guards got in the way. That player escaped unfortunately. This is way more annoying than people hugging tieflings for me. 10x as annoying.

Fearlessness = If you are in my events and you act as if you can't be phased, if you die in the event, I'll consider your character perm'd. Period. This I'm enacting right now.


3) Black & White

Wow are people very black and white. I swear sundren gets less and less realistic every day because of this issue. You're either EVIL or you're GOOD. What the hell?!?!? People have asked me in character if I was good before. Why would my character know their alignment? Why is everyone thinking in alignments? Notice that even paladin detection has varying degrees of evil and good?

I'm sorry people, when you meet people in RL, do you sit and wonder "Hmmm, I wonder if this guy is good or evil alignment..." or ever put on your resume "Good alignment, paladin approved". So why is it in everyone's play?

This whole thread about tieflings is an example of it! You see a tiefling, why is your reaction either Love them or Hate them? I'm pretty sure theres 1000 other emotions you can feel with varying degrees. "I don't trust tieflings, but I'm not going to let one bleed to death in front of me." Wow! I have yet to see someone with that standpoint. Or "Look, I really don't care about tieflings at all, I just don't want them near me so people start thinking I'm a tiefling lover." Wow, I could come up with alot of opinions of tieflings that are on the gray scale, but for some reason, you either love them or hate them.

Try not to be 0 or 1 about everything like a computer. You're a quanta flowing freely, recorded in varying degrees between 0 and 1. Try to put that into your RP. And if you can't. If everything has to be black and white because you know everyone is good or evil, why not just go "Hey, that guy is evil! But maybe he's only 1 good action away from shifting to neutral." Because I do shift alignments alot.


4) God Mode Metagaming

Here's an example:

Player A casts Eldritch Blast

Player B rolls Lore

Player B goes "I knew it, a warlock."

Can I pimpslap someone for this? I see it all over the place. Especially in DM events.

NPC A walks up

Player A rolls Lore

Player A "Hi NPC A!"

DM "How the hell do you think you know him? Did I tell you that you know him!?"


Or my personal favorite.

DM Spawns NPC and labels it "Banite X"

Player A "Banites!!!!!"

DM "How do you know he's a banite?!"

Player A "He's got a symbol of his god!"

DM "Did I TELL You he had a symbol of his god? Just for that they're all wearing Torm Symbols."


The levels of metagaming are crazy.


Until people can get over all those 4 issues, I don't see the warlock/tiefling issues ever going away.

[dashminus]

I think the what is trying to be conveyed is the general feeling of distrust and fear is missing because it seems the majority of players choose to befriend without question, thus diluting a major aspect of the race: their evil blood line.


As it stands now, no one seems to care that the offspring of a devil/fiend/whatever is sitting next to them. To me a seasoned adventurer would act on the side of caution and would have learned to not take anything at face value, especailly something with fiendish blood.

*shrugs*

To each their own I guess. I just hope I never get killed by fellow adventurers who feel they are best friends with a tiefling they just met.

[undeadsteak]

*Hip thrusts Lallendos' statement* Kyoko dosn't put her life on the line for anyone else, for any reason, save for one night when I was inebriated when she stepped out of camp. Otherwise, does not grind, does not kill monsters, enjoys gambling and insulting random adventurers, your statement is wrong! I always RP as though I had one life to live.

On with the conversation at hand...

Undeadsteak, seriously, this entire thread is about you being told to do something in-character and taking it out of character, so in the traditional words of every experienced roleplayer; Back in character!

Perhaps, Kasso, but i keep seeing ppl going "WHEE A TIEFLING LETS PET IT!".