Concerning Tiefling

[Scourn]

Here is the thing, even if a warlock is stuck with that pact, they are in no way forced to use their powers. And any warlock whom continues to level up in it, is essentially showing that they're happy to draw upon support from the nine hells. A Tiefling doesn't level up its race, it never chose to be a Tiefling and it never acts further upon it... Because face it; there's nothing it can do about it.

Most adventurers are happy to make friends with Tieflings... Honestly, go pick up some Forgotten realms books sometime... Just because a Tiefling is a Tiefling dosn't mean it's kill on sight, it's mistrusted. Now you ought to stop telling other people how to play their characters kthx bai.

Im saying how they should been seen socially, your assumeing I mean something else, pause a moment and look it over again please as you fail to see what im saying. Ive seen one person show actual mistrust to a tiefling, thats it.

[wangxiuming]

Personally, I think a tiefling would be viewed at least as badly as a warlock by the average commoner. After all, tieflings have demon blood and often have distinctive markings - horns, tails, ashy smells, and whatnot. If the demon blood was really so suppressed, I personally would think it would be more realistic to select human and then RP the demonic heritege - after all, if the tiefling's demon blood was so diluted, his natural ability score bonuses, racial powers, and everything else would be significantly decreased, wouldn't they?

Even if tieflings weren't as hated as warlocks, the average person is still not going to warm up to them - after all, commoners don't typically like people who look like they could be the son or daughter of a monster that sacrifices babies in its spare time. In real life, prejudice and hatred often are transferred from father/mother to their children and their children's children - I don't see why it would be any different here.

Also, I think I read (in the NWN2 Manual? Not sure ...) that most tieflings are evil - maybe there are more good ones proportionally compared to warlocks, but most of them would still be evil, and the average person would thus at least be very suspicious of most of them.

That said, player characters are not commoners, as another person said. If your character is enlightened and can look past prejudices, by all means, that's how you should play him. Leave the prejudice to the commoners and those who want to be prejudiced. Often, prejudice can be the basis of great roleplay and storyline progression, but whether players want to do that should be their choice.

[edit] Sorry dashminus, I just realized i basically posted a lot of what you had already said.

[boreas]

The... Helmites have more important things to worry about than tieflings running around causing ruckus. Now a tiefling banite warlock... that would be an interesting villain.

[Machiavelli]

The... Helmites have more important things to worry about than tieflings running around causing ruckus.

This is who we need to see more prejudice against... those pesky Helmites! They must be stopped I tells you. But seriously.

That said, player characters are not commoners, as another person said. If your character is enlightened and can look past prejudices, by all means, that's how you should play him. Leave the prejudice to the commoners and those who want to be prejudiced. Often, prejudice can be the basis of great roleplay and storyline progression, but whether players want to do that should be their choice.

I think Wangy has it here. It's going to depend on your character! Probably most people are going to think Tieflings are evil, some might not, and others really won't care. People could think in these ways for all sorts of reasons, and potentially might want to modify their public response for all sorts of others.

[Cythrawl]

Go ahead, be biased against tieflings. Just give me a goddamn hood.

[ThePaganKing]

I think your attitude towards Warlocks and Teiflings should be based upon the character and his/her RP, not necessarily what the common folk think or do. Remember, we are adventurers; therefore, we are supposed to (usually) be a bit more worldly and have seen things a commoner would never see or encounter. Therefore, you may be a bit more tolerant because maybe you adventured with a tiefling or a warlock or maybe have one in your family. Also, you may have had a bad encounter with them and really, really hate them.

The point is to RP it, don't just go on what the commoners or the government says.

[dashminus]

I feel PCs rise from the ranks of the common man, therefore, will share many of the prejudices they do. The same prejudices as their parents, village, or possibly religion. And just because they are PCs, doesn't mean they have seen ao much in the world. You are assuming that to be a PC means to be familiar all the other races out there. I would say that the supposed rariety of tieflings makes it more likely that most have never seen one at all. Maybe only heard stories of some evil creature, smelling of brimstone with horns on their head, eating the villages babies.

But because tieflings happen to be more common in-game (a result of it being a game) , the acutal tielfing population would be much more lower than what we actually see. But the stigma of being a tiefling is still there.

[GodBeastX]

And some warlocks dont chooce to make pacts, their dad/mother/ aunt someone else could have made the pact and they are stuck with it to. Simple point is, everyone is going " Hey tieflings are my friends! Oh no a warlock kill it!!!" Lets get a little more realistic here....

While true, it's untrue because they "Use" the power.

My view is simple, Tieflings are like black people in 1950s america, except they do tend to toward alignments (Even if Sundren doesn't know that). Let me give you an example of America mistreating black people:

• Your not allowed at our schools
• Your not allowed at our work place
• We don't serve food to your kind here
• You have a separate place to drink water
• Let's make up titles and names and call this them, like spooks, niggers, etc
• They sit on the back of the bus, not the front

Now, what DIDN'T happen often is black people getting killed in the 1950s. Sure they got beat up alot, but not slain all over the place. There wasn't a new article "Thousands of black people were killed today on the streets of Louisiana!"

Also, black people had Sympathizers, and such who would be kind to them. It's going to happen, because some people are that good aligned.

Plus the hate wasn't 100% widespread, some people aren't going to kill.

[Cythrawl]

While true, it's untrue because they "Use" the power.

My view is simple, Tieflings are like black people in 1950s america, except they do tend to toward alignments (Even if Sundren doesn't know that). Let me give you an example of America mistreating black people:

• Your not allowed at our schools
• Your not allowed at our work place
• We don't serve food to your kind here
• You have a separate place to drink water
• Let's make up titles and names and call this them, like spooks, niggers, etc
• They sit on the back of the bus, not the front

Now, what DIDN'T happen often is black people getting killed in the 1950s. Sure they got beat up alot, but not slain all over the place. There wasn't a new article "Thousands of black people were killed today on the streets of Louisiana!"

Also, black people had Sympathizers, and such who would be kind to them. It's going to happen, because some people are that good aligned.

Plus the hate wasn't 100% widespread, some people aren't going to kill.

I approve of this attitude concerning tieflings. Strongly.

[GodBeastX]

I mean, yeah, there were a few killings, but it wasn't even close to genocide. Drow are going to get genocide, because they have been committing Genocide.

Warlocks, not even the same at all. I'm sure, in the tiefling case, the person who mated with or made the pact with the fiend would have been killed, which is closer to a warlock, but down the bloodline where it's getting diluted, you can't look at it the same, and people won't look at it the same.

Yes, some warlocks can get their powers without making demon/devil pacts, and some can be good, but our standpoint on warlocks is that warlocks are witches in this world. Some witches may not have been so bad to be around, but it didn't matter to the witch hunters Obviously if it TOOK hunters to track them down and slaughter them, then somebody must have thought they were alright to be around.

Now, what we're NEVER going to do on sundren (Looks pointedly at a certain someone) tell you who you are or are not going to like. We can tell you how NPCs are going to react. We can tell you how the city views this. We can tell you all of these things to help guide you, but it's still YOU who has to decide. If your character wants to hop around and play with the guy who just got done humping Satan's leg for power, go ahead. Don't be surprised when the Soldiers grab dude, pound his lights out, and drag him off, and you are laying next to him with busted face and black eye.

Seriously, the only people who are going to understand good natured anything for NPCs are probably Paladins because they can scan someone. And even THEY Are not going to say "You're a good guy, so keep your devilish taint, I don't mind TEEHEE!". Everyone else, they have SYMPTOMS and EVIDENCE to go off of. They will say "Huh, this guy is throwing magic I know to be from evil around, and claims 'I'm sorry Officer, I didn't know I couldn't do that'?" Nah, they'll cut ya like Granny B.

See, the problem becomes OOC not IC, and if warlocks continue to be a problem, trust me, it's only one line of code in the scripts to make them DM approved only, and all you warlocks who been playing will be forced to make new characters or convince us to approve them. Consider that before you run around trying to be "Happy fun time guy!".

From the words of Lallendos, which I agree with, "We don't want players turning to evil just because it's the 'Cool' thing to do. And evil people not having trouble makes it look cool." Or something like that.

[Machiavelli]

I reckon GBX is right on the money. Extending the '50s analogy, if Tieflings are black, then Warlocks are Communists... witch hunt anybody

[Edit] Eek, hope I haven't said anything to offend anyone here. I'm not an American, so I may have inadvertantly said something verboten :/

[Aux]

'Better dead than red'

Silas saw a tiefling by the exigo camp last night, as far as i know he was the only one present who showed any animosity... after all hes a regular mercenary soldier turned adventurer... but also only the day before he was with a party that fought a female devil/demon- Eirynes (sp?) i think it was- so assumptions are made. He was thinking of trying to run it through there and then if it wasnt for the fact that ooc i know how pee'd off some folks would be, especially the player of said tiefling.

As a long time Realms player and DM im under the impression tieflings are mistrusted, not quite as much as drow, but they can get some heavy attitude... lunched, run out of town, etc.. but also they are rare to be wandering the Realms. Seems to me that Neeshka is almost the new Drizzt. Then there was that fairy from HotU- Valen. Deekin of course, Grovel (great voiceset).. wonder whats next?... lovable misunderstood beholder, succubus with a heart of gold? Hmm im cynicly rambling now and have lost the thread of what i was going to post, so ill shut up...

[Felnak]

Daye was with Silas on the adventure with the party that killed the female devil. Then the next day, she saw this male human/devil creature by the fire in the Sharahan Hills. Daye's reaction was somewhere between "You are not from around here, are you?" to "What the hells is this thing?" The reaction was not overtly hostile, but one of amazement. Daye observed the Tiefling for some time, then actually did ask the first question. After a few words were exchanged, she was still left with the second question.

[undeadsteak]

The thing i find annoying is when somone threatens a tiefling or is simply cautious and well-prepared in case of a fight, everyone goes "OH this tiefling is good, put your weapon down." And all that. The same used to be with warlocks until the DMs acutally started NPC hatred towards them. I find it quite ridiculous when everyone starts scolding a person for being cautious and slightly agressive to a tiefling.

[dashminus]

The thing i find annoying is when somone threatens a tiefling or is simply cautious and well-prepared in case of a fight, everyone goes "OH this tiefling is good, put your weapon down." And all that. The same used to be with warlocks until the DMs acutally started NPC hatred towards them. I find it quite ridiculous when everyone starts scolding a person for being cautious and slightly agressive to a tiefling.

This is what happens to me every time so far. And each time, it makes me think OOC whether it is worth even trying to RP the situation knowing that there will be three people who are going to say "aww this tiefling is ok, we have been talking to it for 10 minutes with no trouble." On a few occassions, I simpley pass the camp alltogether to avoid it.