Encounter difficulty - exploring areas

[Saulus]

I notice this with new players and I've been thinking about ways to handle it. Some new players might venture into a place like viridale forest at level 3, which for veteran players you know is near suicide.

Conversely, what if a player at level 3 wandered into the Necropolis?

Advising players of this from OOC means seems like metagaming, even quirky. An in character method of simply telling someone where to go and where not to go seems clunky. The campaign handled this for instance by not revealing areas on the map until you've progress to the point where you would be high enough level to handle that area anyway.

Now this might bring the retort -- "But Saulus, what if we want to go to that area anyway, and maybe party with higher levels". Well that's a valid point, I don't want to restrict people from exploring, but at the same time I don't want someone to have a bad experience walking into a high level area and getting ganked badly.

So I want to leave this up to discussion, do people think this is a real problem or should it be ignored? Is there a simple way of solving this without going above and beyond in terms of drastic changes?

[undeadsteak]

I think an OOC warning should be neccassary. Its no fun being new to the server, and ending up in a place with high lvl monsters and getting butchered. They should still be able to go there if they want, but warning them of how difficult it is would be nice.

[Ithildin]

Why not have the guards warn against going to certain places... such as them saying the necropolis is death for those adventures who don't have years of training, or the guards at the border camp in Viridale forest mention the player would likely be gnoll food if they leave the protection of the camp to wander the forest. The guard outside the Aquor cave mentioning the person talking to them would get swarmed by giant hungry insects and likely torn to pieces.

Don't know if its possible to set it so it only says those things up to a certain level but either way it would be a warning. Of course if the player doesn't talk to the npcs that won't do much good.

[wangxiuming]

Maybe a few npc guards in the beginning of each area warning adventurers about what's inside? For example:

Exigo Guards: "The area is infested with goblins, but they're more of a nuisance than anything else."

Viridale Border Guards: "The forest is inhabited by gnolls and other dangers ... unless you've progressed a few seasons, it may be a better idea to leave the patrolling to us."

Aquor Cave Guard: "The insects here pose a significant challenge even for us. I would advise great caution if you want to venture forward."

Necropolis Kelemvorite Guard: "The dangers that lie within the Necropolis are numerous and should not be taken lightly. I've seen the hardiest warriors and seasoned sorcerers alike venture in, only to be carried out in body bags ... or worse."

edit: wow, i feel redundant.

[Saulus]

There won't always be guards near dangerous places.

[Ithildin]

if I remember right there is a guard in aquor right across from the cave enterance, there is a temple with npcs in it in front of the necropolis gate, there are a bunch of guard right outside the forest at the camp you go to... are all those being removed?

[wangxiuming]

The lack of guards could be another sign of danger. If people catch on that standard monster-infested areas have guards, and they stumble across one that doesn't, they can infer that something unpleasant is probably around the corner.

[Saulus]

Guards around every encounter area isn't going to happen. Not everyone where there is danger is there a defense from Sundren.

Also, it's not like guards are going to know or even care about every hapless adventurer who wanders by. Even still not all players will always walk by a guard on the way to their destination, not everyone would go into the Temple before walking into the Necropolis, etc.

These are just some of the hostile areas in Sundren, many new areas won't have guards even near them in the future.

[Ithildin]

well what about signs in front of the areas like sestra caves have a sign warning about the place being cursed. Wouldn't be surprised if someone in aquor put a sign outside the cave warning about the insects, and the guards at the forest camp posting a sign warning about the gnolls near the exit of their camp. Otherwise if your wanting to warn people where not to go seems like it would have to be ooc.

[Saulus]

We'll see. Things like signs just won't work with the lore changes that will be occuring in some places like those you mentioned.

[Venture]

some sort of "travel agent" particularily sitting at the docks in port avanthyr, like a welcoming npc, someone that will tell a new player where to gear up, where a good place to start off is, you know the basics.

[undeadsteak]

Gah, i just think OOC warning would be fair enough. Something in your journal or something explaining the levels you should be to go in there.

[Raksha]

I'm not sure how feasable this is, but...

Suppose that on the world map, if you clicked on a location and your character's level was below a certain number, a little message popped up saying something along the lines of "You see the bleached bones of those who have passed this way along the road as you draw closer. It strikes you that continuing at this time might be a good idea. Proceed?" with a prompt that could either complete the transit or boot you back to the world map.

Random thought. But I think that some sort of warning would be a positive thing.

[Ula Fey]

Well... this is a role-play server - how much warning should people need or be getting?

I'd say - the first (or one of the first) NPCs you meet when arriving for the first time should be able to give some fairly solid hints, if asked - along the lines of - yeah, city areas are safe, Gate of the sunderer and sharahan have low level threats, lots of other places are really quite dangerous.

And that should really be it. The players should be talking to other player's characters to find out about the world, and what's safe to go where. Places like viridale already have some hints - the guard convo that triggers about 'you see the size of the gnolls in that forest?' OK, that tells you there are gnolls in there - similar things could be done to add simple convo lines to NPCs in other areas, but if there are no NPCs around then surely the character is exploring at their own risk anyway?

It's not like there are areas where you are going to get multiple spawns hitting you the moment you step through the transition (maybe at the Necropolis - I've never had a character of high enough level to go there) so characters can (and surely should) be exploring carefully, ready to run away if need be.

If the player then chooses to simply have their character go running in somewhere without any preparation or information, and they get killed - yeah, well, that's what happens.

"but..but... I went to dragon gulch, and I followed some dragon footprints all the way up to dragon cave, and I went in because I thought there must be a dragon horde in there with lots of cool loot, and, you'll never guess...I got killed by a freakin' Dragon! Man, that was so mean! Why did nobody warn me?"

Given that the death penalties here are reasonably light, I don't see too much of a need for more than this - BUT - you've asked the question, so I guess you've seen a need for something, maybe because of feedback from new players? Some IC information should certainly be available, right near to the starting area - but I don't think it should be 'forced' onto people, they should have to ask. And I really don't agree with limiting areas by level, we should all be free to get our characters killed by our own stupidity.

My two cents...which as usual turns out to be about $10 worth.... next level I promise to take skill focus (get to the damn point)

[Echelon13]

Trial and error, and learning by speaking to other PCs who are more world-weary may also be a good way; as well as promoting RP. Worked fine in NWN1 worlds, and would work fine here.
NPCs aren't needed, nor are huge flashing neon signs that say "DANGER, WILL ROBINSON! DANGER!".