Evil Drow

[GodBeastX]

... They're mean to everything that is not themselves or a spider.

And each other, you forgot that.

[undeadsteak]

Oooh! We shall march over sundren and conquer them with our uber army of... 7 drows and 1 duregear or somethin? O_o.

[nutranurse]

If they are all high-levelled...

[undeadsteak]

Im kidding. Hand of Mundas or the Harbringers would whoop our asses

[Satoshi]

I've played from 2nd Edition, and played 3rd and 3.5. I've seen how 'terribly unbalanced' evil is, and how equally 'terribly unbalanced' good is, for that matter. Lallendos - I'm sorry to break it to you - but your in a game structured for 3rd Edition, Forgotten Realms roleplay. You can hate the Drow, you can hate warlocks - doesn't change the fact that they were balanced AS BEST AS CAN BE DONE (I use the term loosely, including NWN original) for an electronic medium for a Pen and Paper fantasy game. People don't always want to play the good side of things. Some people want the evil to win, just to change the pace. Saying 'No, you can't do that,' only makes them want to do it more - but with a renewed fervor that drives people who want to prove you wrong.

Your opinion is exactly that: an opinion. I doubt either side will ever 'win' - not as long as there is a diverse playerbase, and DMs willing to run risks called 'events'. The population may cause huge, world-changing events and shift the scale of Law/Chaos and Good/Evil on it's axis.... for a time. Then, the rebellion starts again - it's called strife, growth, and conflict.

"Yay, let's all play neutral or lawful good cleric/rogue/fighter/mages and let the DMs come up with all the ideas for conflict!" Eventually, the DMs either get bored or frustrated, or the players do. Or both.

Break the mold. People want to play drow. We have DMs that can give them quests opposed to those of the good players. Fury and GBX did it just fine. People had fun. We all learned something. Don't piss on that, mkay?

[Vichtor]

I'm going to break it to you gently, ok? The Drow can't win. Evil can't win. Good can't -completely- eliminate evil. Drow are just alil bit overpowered there, bud. In a persistent world, unlike PNP, you have literally a lifetime to level. This may be a root issue with Warlocks (ok, only one of a few), and is paired with a low magic world. In discussions over balance, GodBeast walked his arse RIGHT into the fact that low magic items enhances the character build, and magic classes.

Warlocks and Drow can hate me all day, but I have already run mental simulations of Evil largely winning this game.
Please step out of yourselves a second, and realize that if everyone is a drow( and if enough % of active player base IS, there will be a paradigm shift towards them), then, by our own faction enforcement, we eventually dump the world on it's head.
Quests that made sense before, no longer do. Good would have to eventually be less represented in town/land ownership. You get where i'm going, I hope. I'm really rather tired of explaining this. Role Playing Drow needs to be left to DMs and some hand picked players, chosen specifically for their ability to roleplay their character's alignment. The Drow are a spiteful, Evil, and hot blooded race, to the core. They shouldn't be a PC option. Nor should a few other game breaking options. Game breaking, meaning overpowered heavily, or straying VERY far from the D&D Basic goal of having PCs play the "good guys", with immersing tales involving confrontations with great evils arising from their adventures.

Proof the server isn't ready for actual evil, much less Drow. If this is the mindset that prevails, then you simply can't have evil; it'll never work. Players who enjoy playing evil characters will only stand being walked all over because no one wants to accept that "Good" can lose for so long before they leave the server.

Good CAN lose. Some of the most notable heroes arose from situations where "Good" had been all but destroyed. You argue that Drow and Evil have unlimited time to grow in power; isn't that the point of a persistant world? Don't the players behind "Good" characters have that same time span?

What's the point of a persistant world being persistant if it can't be dynamic and change? Evil takes over; the world gets a darker feel to it while Good holes up and builds a resistance. The face of the world shifts, changes, evolves...

What you're saying is that you want a stagnant world where nothing changes and the players hold no sway. Evil plots and plans and builds power to overthrow the major cities...oops! No they don't! DM's step in and smash them back down so that the world dynamic doesn't shift toward evil because they don't want it to.

What's the point of playing if you can't make a difference?

[nutranurse]

Well I really must say that I am sorry if any of my characters are causing you a headache Lallendos, as that is not what I had intended for them to do. I barely understand the process of creating a PW, i.e. the quests, npcs, areas, etc. involves but I believe I know how to role-play in one.
I do not know if you are saying that I am role-playing the characters incorrectly, and I must say that I am most likely doing so for one of them (The elf, also as it is I am just going between the three characters trying to find which one suits my taste more so I may play that one as a main), but for the other two, as far as I see it, I am playing more or less along the lines that I know of.

First off let me state that I am playing a Lawful Evil character(s). Lawful being the strongest factor here. As such I believe that my actions should be along the lines of this:

These characters believe in using society and its laws to benefit themselves. Structure and organization elevate those who deserve to rule as well as provide a clearly defined hierarchy between master and servant. To this end, lawful evil characters support laws and societies that protect their own concerns. If someone is hurt or suffers because of a law that benefits lawful evil characters, too bad. Lawful evil characters obey laws out of fear of punishment. Because they may be forced to honour an unfavourable contract or oath they have made, lawful evil characters are usually very careful about giving their word. Once given, they break their word only if they can find a way to do it legally, within the laws of the society. An iron-fisted tyrant and a devious, greedy merchant are examples of lawful evil beings.

So now that that is established let me explain how I aim to follow these lines with my characters.

First let me introduce Mieamurd, an eccentric little Gnomeish Story-Teller who is not opposed to manipulating people for her own benefit. I believe that I described her as being "Welcoming towards most people, as she wants to hear their stories. Through these stories she hopes to find out their faults, and through telling her own stories she aims at divulging as little of her faults as possible." (Paraphrasing) Now when I began playing Miea and met my first character (Raina Evinsen) I came at a crossroads and depending on how I treated this character would shape how I treated others. I could either A: Be an out right jerk and be as mean-spirited as possible or B: Treat her with a false kindness and try to form some plot in my mind. (note: there were probably many more options, but those two came to my mind first) A is just problematic, and just not how I believe my character would act, and B seemed more along the lines of a, manipulative little bastard anyway. And then another thought came to mind; why not worm my way into the hearts of as many people as I can? And if their hearts are inaccessible then just try to learn as much as possible about/from them as I can, aka. using them to my own means. Now this ties back to the entire scope of what I believe Lawful Evil to be: An evil that plots and plans, putting up as many guises as possible so that it may never be found out for what they truly are until it believes would be most beneficial for it's plans.

Moving on, next is Vurk. A Half-Orc raised in the Spine of the World by a tribe of Mountain Orcs I have yet to make up a name for. She is far more intelligent than any average (and some exceptional) orcs, even average humans, but what she lacks is experience in the world. Most things are new to her (as I have show through how I play her character) and as such she looks at them with much caution, and superstition that a Half-Orc would (i.e. aim to avoid things/people that she deems "evil" and "wrong" (enter Eistel(sp?)) Her ulterior motive is to find a new place for her Orc Tribe to raid/pillage/etc. Oh! But wait! That causes so much trouble for people such as yourselves and any other builder/writer/staff on the PW team. And I realised this, so I figured that I would either A: Petition either you or whoever I could find about setting up and Orc Raid (Which would fail and Vurk dying during this) or B: Just never get around to it and let Vurk be influenced moreso by the Good folk of Sundren, than the evil Orcs that told her to find a new place for them. Now what makes this a Lawful Evil motive is that she, unlike most Orcs (who probably take to that good ol' CE alignment that caused me headaches too way back when I used to DM), she plots and plans aiming to weaken Sundren (somehow) from the inside. Now once again I know this will turn out to be a pain for any other builder/writer/staff on the PW team, but I am willing to bite any bullets that you all shoot at me because I play these kind of characters because I hope to bring excitement to the wonderful PW which I see has so much potential. Even if they are just minor.

As for a closing statement, well this is why I believe that people should be forced to submit applications and Character-Bios for any evil character/rare race (Drow, Planetouched, Deep Gnome, etc.) to show that they are capable of handling them (which I hope I just demonstrated with the majority of my post above) and will not become that person we all hate: That griefing bastard who debases the enter name of evil by justifying their childish actions with the words: Oh! I am evil! So that means I should go about and just kill people/pick their pockets/Blah blah blah. Or even someone you should hate more in your case: The self-centered bastard who just wants to play evil so he can justify his... well, selfishness/want to be seen as the most UB3R P0W3FU7 Character Ever!!!!!1111oneeleven. And just, through this also childish motive, causes any other builder/writer/staff on the PW team headaches that you guys really do not deserve. You have your work cut out for you anyway as you guys are keeping this world persistent.

Oh, and one last thing. I understand that there is probably a storyline in the works, and this storyline just may not have a place for an evil character outside of those PC's the a DM or Team member plays, or a PC approved by the team to play evil. And I also understand that my characters motives (as stated above) might hinder the progress of said storyline, but once again I say this:I play these kind of characters because I hope to bring excitement to the wonderful PW which I see has so much potential. Even if they are just minor.

Thank you for reading this, and if I offended you in any way please, please! Forgive me, that was not my motive here. I just wanted to bring to light my reasons for playing my characters as I do now.

[GodBeastX]

I think people are taking what Lallendros is saying away from his real point.

Overpowered.

Given all the time in the world, what is more powerful between a level 20 moon elf and a level 20 Drow? That's the point he is trying to make. They are stronger than other races, and with low magic items, even stronger. He's trying to say their actions alone affect the server a great deal more than other people. How many people on the server are evil? How many of them caused people to flood the forums complaining how jacked up it is that this race is running around causing trouble? Drow have, and in the future still will. I think people are asking for Drow now more because they are looking for conflict and things to do than actually weighing out the future effects. The DMs are weighing things out and unfortunately they can't sit and put out story spoilers to justify why it might get in the way, but it's more than that as well.

Yes, Fury and Myself ran many plots and we did have fun and learn. We learned alot of things surrounding Drow too. As I told Victhor and others, I don't believe (Personally) that the whole of the playerbase can handle Drow running around along side them. I can list a billion reasons, would you like me to?

1) PVP

People can't all handle PVP where their enemies are outward and controlled by other players. They can't accept that their actions may not result in the permanent end of their enemy They will complain if they have to face them over and over.

2) Acceptance

People can't accept that evil is evil. They can't accept that paladins aren't the badguys and Drow are likely lying through their teeth when the few are acting nice. Yes, many of you were played in the past. The hippy feeling of "Let's embrace everyone!" with large amounts of people is just plain wrong, and I'd never RP the officials and NPCs with that mentality. People hates what's different and what they believe is evil as a whole. I know this, because I'm black in RL and get called "Ni**er" alot and my wife "Ni**er Lover" and neither of us have a history of assassinating people or pillaging.

3) Everyone worries about win / lose

I play Ahkivasha for the most part, why? C/N. I can't play non-neutral individuals on PWs anymore because I really get tired of people pushing soooooo hard for their wills to dominate. Nothing like an 8 charisma individual standing up in front of a crowd and trying to be a leader to rouse the rabble and get them to mob some evil guy that they found out was evil simply because he casted one evil looking spell by visual effects standards.

I like to play WITH people. I mean it makes sense on a Multiplayer game to include the multiplayer element, right? If I meet evil I don't just over critique them until I find their evil, or always act right all the time. Nothing like wrongful accusations and assumptions you know are way off OOC but add flavor to the RP.



Don't get me wrong, I like Drow as a race and society, but it's not something meant to just be trotting around the surface interacting with surfacers all day, and that's part of the reason I think things aren't ready for them.

Lal's post is "We're letting you play Drow, but you're being watched heavily to see if you're going to be trouble or enhance gameplay." That's his point.

[Vichtor]

I'm with GBX on this...I personally don't think the server or the players are ready for large-scale evil.

He just puts it nicer than I do.

[Satoshi]

I will concede and agree with GBX and Vichtor. Until players, as a whole, are mature enough to handle the above-stated events and reasons behind them. That's the reason, I suppose, the suppliment books are stated 'For mature players only'. I simple keep forgetting that not everyone has a rational, logical, creative approach to playing with others.

[nutranurse]

AH! Well then I agree with everything you said GBX. Could not do so more!

[Rhazeal]

As much as I hate to admit it, all the good servers I've ever played on have had a very clear definition of "Evil" as "The Enemy" - Thus there were little to no chance of an evil character actually being able to make much headway. People flowed with it, and it was quite enjoyable. Of course, people will always want to play evil due to the badass factor.

It simply does not work. Lighten up people.

[Ithildin]

nothing against any of you but got to say, I hope not all who posted about making a drow get premission to, most times when I go on there are about 10 people, there were five or six posting about making one so thats about half the server as a drow.

[GodBeastX]

I pretty much think the fact this thread is this long shows it's not a great race to just let run free. I have yet to see a Dwarf or Halfling thread reach this many posts. It's obvious that there is alot of animosity and concerns over this race and I think that should be enough in itself, regardless of lore or how cool this evil is, to show you that we're looking for balance as a whole.

I like the community here a lot. I believe we are in need of an evil element to spice things up. I warned that I am already seeing some of the bad side that I anticipated.

We know your concerned with "What can I do while I'm on" and Lallen is taking it into account. I personally can say Lallen is a great guy for the job of managing DM'ing from talking to him personally over chat and voice chat. He's really looking to bring enjoyment to the play over everyone here, but he can't do that if nobody really listens to the whole message he's trying to state.

You guys want fun and conflict, Drow just might not be the solution to this. I'm fairly certain there are many other evils in the D&D universe to draw from

[undeadsteak]

Im just playing a drow as an alt, and I Don't really want to take over Sundren. I was just messin around with that idea. The Drow is simply for some fun RP and conflict.