Organizing Evil Cult... Interested?

[valenator]

The good aren't burdened with sparing the evil unless pressed for mercy. Such is the DnD universe.

All slain in the Forgotten Realms first enter the Fugue (Forest of Eternal Night, for Sundren's purposes). It's a checkpoint for souls before being collected by the respective deity's emissary or being returned to the living.

[Satoshi]

I want to see evil succeed! "Evil shall always triumph because Good... is b<>dumb</b>!

What Delexos and Elusa was saying is that, as evil vile despicable characters, we might have to accept that fact that there may come a time when one of is caught, hung, burned, and scattered to the wind. Sometimes, it makes no sense to simply say, "Okay, I'll just respawn!" There are repercussions that, gameplay mechanics aside, make no sense for a roleplaying server. A truly villainous character who is captured, publically executed, and the body sanctified and entombed in a private crypted guarded by paladin defenders is -not- coming back. The same can be said about a virtuous character who dies somewhere like the Necropolis (with the rare exception that a person is selfless enough to expend the effort and cost raising them in such a hellish place, if the undead don't completely consume/destroy the body).

In all reality, however, I am a mature and serious roleplayer - and I expect the same of those who I will be asking to join this cause. If it is best for the story, if it makes the server a more interesting place, and if it makes sense - I am not going to simply be stubborn and say, "No, I can't die." I doubt the others will, as well. It'd be great if the people on the other side of the alignment bar would also accept that responsability, but as Sundren is a generally 'good/neutral' aligned land, it makes more sense that the favor is theirs.

Upon death, a lawful evil soul appears on the Shelves of Despond. A soul, once in Hell, is completely incapable of being raised, recalled, or magically leaving Baator. A permanent death is completely believable, and if brought on fairly, will be an (unfortunate) end to the character's story. In converse, however, I think you Good aligned people might want to consider that a 'loss', because the Devils still win. Mercy and redemption are the tools of true good heroes. A violent end is much less satisfying.

[Vavutsikarios]

Valenator.
Thank you for the explanation.

The good aren't burdened with sparing the evil unless pressed for mercy. Such is the DnD universe.
Considering that, we can conclude that good and evil are merely two opposing factions, and the terms good and evil as used in DnD do not directly associate with the meaning they have IRL. Oh well..

Satoshi.
Thank you for the explanation also.
Once again I have to completely agree with your point of view.

A truly villainous character who is captured, publically executed, and the body sanctified and entombed in a private crypted guarded by paladin defenders is -not- coming back.
Oh yes. Things like that can be very special for all the people involved. Most of all for the player who has invested many hours, thought and emotion in the character who is about to die. He has to be compensated for his loss, and that means that he must have a say in the way things evolve. After all, it is his spiritual child that is about to die. A thing like that just has to have his approval.

[Raksha]

The same can be said about a virtuous character who dies somewhere like the Necropolis (with the rare exception that a person is selfless enough to expend the effort and cost raising them in such a hellish place, if the undead don't completely consume/destroy the body).

I'd like to draw special attention to this point. It seems a bit wrong to expect evil characters, when killed in an especially spectacular and final way, to permenantly stay dead, while "good" characters trot into places like the Necropolis with very little concern for such things. Sometimes, I think that the concept of "encounter zones" or "dungeons" gets in the way of showing that there are bastions of evil (or "evil") from which many simply don't come out again. So, it may eventually be fair play for a good character who finds himself captured and executed.

That said, this is all in the interest of having fun -- and this looks very fun, in the twisted sort of way that such things are. ^_^ Good luck with it.

[Pycroft]

...I still think this should all be RP'd out, unless you are planning to starting all new characters that are already in a group together, and starting them at level 3. If this will include characters that are already developed and have been playing in Sundren, how will they hear about hte group (Especially without the Paladin types hearing about it)? How will someone be invited in? etc. I think a 'application' system is a mistake. Personally, I play an ultra evil character, and have for months. He's done many of the things mentioned in the post. But he follows no God, so he obviously wouldn't fit into the cult type group. From the movies I've seen (Good source huh?), cult's usually have some sort of initiation ceremony, and if they weren't accepted, perhaps they would kill the failed initiate. Plus, if it's RP'd out, much more opportunity for fun (Paladin undercover infiltrating the cult, etc.). I, again, think this should all be done through RP, or at least on the RP forum through dialogue, etc.

Pycroft
Ewan Rice (Jasper)
Marco Modrzecki

[Vichtor]

...I still think this should all be RP'd out, unless you are planning to starting all new characters that are already in a group together, and starting them at level 3. If this will include characters that are already developed and have been playing in Sundren, how will they hear about hte group (Especially without the Paladin types hearing about it)? How will someone be invited in? etc. I think a 'application' system is a mistake. Personally, I play an ultra evil character, and have for months. He's done many of the things mentioned in the post. But he follows no God, so he obviously wouldn't fit into the cult type group. From the movies I've seen (Good source huh?), cult's usually have some sort of initiation ceremony, and if they weren't accepted, perhaps they would kill the failed initiate. Plus, if it's RP'd out, much more opportunity for fun (Paladin undercover infiltrating the cult, etc.). I, again, think this should all be done through RP, or at least on the RP forum through dialogue, etc.

Pycroft
Ewan Rice (Jasper)
Marco Modrzecki

And thus the assumptions begin. Most of the origin, organization, and development from here on out will be kept under a tight lid. Suffice it to say that no existing character will be in the original development; it wouldn't make sense.

[wangxiuming]

I would highly encourage that any sort of permanent death be consensual on both sides of the RP, since it would be pretty devastating to invest months into a character, only to have him be executed without any word's notice.

I'm also highly not in favor of doing this over the forums - we should really try to limit the amount of metagaming knowledge that other people have; being an evil cult is going to be hard enough as it is, considering we'll all be starting out at level 3. We don't need paladins to "run across the notes we posted at the Four Lanterns Inn" and suddenly decide to annihilate us all.

[Skro]

I think this:

The module don't have the conception to be a perma death server, because, we die, and a friend character uses a scroll of resurrection and that is all.
And a Lvl 15 Cleric with the date of death or a belonging of the dead man/woman, can resurrect them.

[Lanthar]

Well, you dont want to abuse the ability to raise dead as a cleric, if you raise to much you will piss off some higher powers and they wont be pleased before you are dead.

[Skro]

Well, you dont want to abuse the ability to raise dead as a cleric, if you raise to much you will piss off some higher powers and they wont be pleased before you are dead.

Of course not, I don't abuse of the ability of raise the deads, I barely use it now, and If I need to use it, I don't have a "Instant Raise Dead" prepared.
Im saying because the other characters can use the scrolls, so the fear to death is very low when you have a friend close.

[Lanthar]

I never claimed you did abuse anything, And sorry for going off topic.

[Elusa]

What you are essentially asking for is intelligent evil pc's,after all my own main character Urthak Thunk,who has been on the server for quite some time, is by all practice and deed, evil though I suppose he could be associated under the dark advent tag as he works for them, he is however still an independant creature and can operate outside of the necropolis walls, so is it then due to his lack of perceived intellect that he is classed not as a villain but rather as a so called 'monster' ?

I think you're taking this way too personally. I'll lay out the meaning of the words that you've taken offense to. Monsters are randomly generated creatures that have no intelligence, and serve no purpose other than to give the players something to fight. Villains have some kind of intelligence behind them. An evil PC is a villain, because they have a player controlling them. Even an evil NPC can be a villain, if they're being controlled by the DM and have some kind of plot. Urthak is a villain. Evil PCs can never be classified as simple monsters.

I know for a fact that there are evil characters out there, i've sat watching them plotting in dark corners, but for you to know about them and for them to therefore become 'tangible' defeats their main objective, after all once someone is known to be evil, as many here have rightly stated, they tend not to last long.

When I say I want a tangible evil, want I mean is that Sundren lacks any kind of real villainous threat. Sure, we have a few random characters like Urthak, but they don't do anything to really disrupt the daily life of the people. Right now Elusa just fights the necropolis, but the necropolis is just a dungeon, nothing more. Now that the drow are gone, everyone's just like, "Hey, want to kill some zombies at the necropolis?" "Sure, I got nothing better to do."

By the way, I think a lot of problems would be solved by removing challenge ratings. Why do good aligned characters let evil characters walk among them freely? Because they examine the character and see the word "Impossible." The reverse is also true. Why do evil characters attack at random? Because they see the word "Effortless."

wangxiuming: Any permanent death would be decided by a DM only. This is not a cruel server. You can't say, "Okay, I killed you and mutilated your body, so you get perma death."

[Deathevn]

I would like to put up one warning about all of this. From my expernces on other servers having an 'evil cult' can be a very good thing to encourage roleplay, enrich the world, and generaly make the life alot more pleasent. On the other side, limiting the numbers, while making secracy much much easyer to secure, sometimes leaves some players with a sense of the 'haves' and the 'haves not' A secret little private club that some people have acess to and some people dont. The concept never bothered me, your character is your character no matter if they are approached by some dark covent or not. But it was just a shared opnion from some of a servers populace back in my days at NWN1

[wangxiuming]

I think that's a concern worth addressing; still, anybody who feels left out need only remember that he has friends in the whole rest of the server. It's not like the cult is going to get special items or gain levels faster.

I think it'd be interesting to see a harper-agent organization develop as a result of the actions of this cult; Two groups operating in secrecy, each trying to undermine the other's actions would be entertaining to say the least. Although, admittedly that would probably be a LOT of work on the part of both players and DMs.

[valenator]

On the subject of staying dead:

Unless it was rolled back, PC's killed as a result of CvC are unable to respawn. This is what was originally being referred to when it was mentioned that evil PC's, if exposed, could expect to take an extended dirt nap; they'd be iced by a player character, and if said PC was a divine-based PC, he/she would more likely take the steps to move, exhume, sanctify, and dispose of the body in such a way that the death would be much more likely to be final. The converse is also true.