Perma-death

[Jhickey]

If it is vitality loss, that can be regained by a player resurrection, so it all depends what kind of allies you might have around you and if they are willing to help you or take your place in the case of the Black Hand! So if it is just the loss of Vitality then there are ways around it. If the DM says you are perma-dead, well then it is as said.

[gbbishop]

I like sundren's current system.

heh we totally almost bit it in our last doubt event. In surviving we, might have spelled the doom of all Sundren. I am all for being perma'd, as long as my character's efforts to avoid such a fate are fully considered.

All that said, I would surely be a bit put off if one of my characters met his maker because of some other asshat that managed to latch on to the event.

[Alistair Smith]

I'm new to this whole thing so I'm not sure how I would feel. I can understand creating that viewpoint that characters aren't immortal gods, but at the same time would be peeved to lose a character. With that said though I'd hate for others not to have the game they want it, sooooo as long as there is notice and it's voluntary on the events I can be okay with it.

[Barathos]

Perma-death is fine with me, because I thought that's what this server was about. Making choices that will lead to great rewards or a terrible demise.

As others have said, I do value story over anything on this server, because there are some really nifty plotlines going on. Also wouldn't mind a "CAUTION: DEATH IS PERMANENT" or somesuch added to it.

[Intrepid42]

I have multiple characters precisely because I need to be prepared to lose one to horrible cruel fate at any time.

[Barathos]

I have multiple characters precisely because I need to be prepared to lose one to horrible cruel fate at any time.

*Shuffles feet*

Yeah... I... Don't even have a level 20, but I have about 5-6 characters in the event one get's permed.

[Grey-Moth]

I would like the extra risk vs. reward provided it was not a single roll of the dice sort of thing. Like if a character stepped on a hidden trap and rolls a 1 he is dead forever kind of thing. However, if the players knew there were traps and were reckless and then set off the traps and rolled the 1, that would be fine in my book.

Basically, this.

If a character acts like a absurd moron and demonstrates zero intelligent decisions, then yeah, they... should die, it's a fact of life.

But that little random number generator just loves making me look stupid with a fat string of 1s sometimes.

That being said, I've played in stuff with DMs I knew for a long while that involved the possibility of perma-death. And knew a few hardcore RPers back on MMOs that would shelf 'dead' characters. If it's treated responsibly, I really don't see why not!

Although it does remind me of my first P&P DM, and how much we scorned that jack-ass. He'd set up traps my thief character literally couldn't find without a natural 20 on the various perception skills, that often killed one to three party members (and he damn well knew they would). We quickly scorned him, it wasn't a demonstration of him making skilled dungeons. Just being a jack-ass.

... but come to think of it, no one is as bad at DMing as my real life friend was.

Anyway, yes, I do get attached to my characters and concepts, and everytime I hear a conversation about it all I ever hear is 'That's such a bad habit'. It's a bad practice on my part and I'll openly admit that, I guess. I don't understand why, but I guess. But I did a lot of table-top RPing, which is generally getting together with my friends, and we honestly don't usually stare at perma-death scenarios across the table. It was a reason to get together, have fun, have a few beers, and roll dice while while everyone puts on their goofiest moods and gets into character. I still challenge my players, of course! But when they're blatantly just looking at bad luck, and a lot less consequences for their actions sort of thing, I think I've 'killed' maybe three PCs in my DMing time. It's a delicate issue, and honestly, I don't think it should be written off flippantly as 'I enjoy difficulty, bring it on'. Just as much as players need to own up to their responsibility too, if they happen to slap the wrong mysterious stranger. Otherwise you risk the chance of people literaly just... not going the distance, save for min/maxing folks, because they don't want to lose their characters, or death itself seeming like a issue that can be passively written off.

But, I could be totally wrong, and I'll openly admit that!

[Vaelek]

Perma-death shouldn't be voluntary. The ratio of people that are genuinely all right with losing a character and the ones who can't stand to lose progress made and relationships forged ICly is too massive a chasm. It's one of those things that I've understood is fact on Sundren and really shouldn't be left to the behest of the player.

The highlight of any driven PW story should be the possibility of defeat, various setbacks in whatever your climate - political, relational and naturally in role-play combat and battle situations. There's no point to being a scheming noble if you can't corner your opponent sufficiently to have them beheaded, no virtue in being a Legionnaire if there's no risk of death before defeating Sundren's most primary foes.

I've lost multiple characters on this server and for each of them, the greatest point of their story was usually just before decapitation. I'm always good for the thrill of what new death is waiting around the corner.

I mean, I still play Dark Souls.

[Doubtful]

Slapping OOC warnings all over things just ruins the drama. However, perma death situations are honestly (thus far) actually fairly uncommon, you really have to work hard at blazing stupidity to get yourself killed.

Typical examples might be facing off alone against an entire army despite it being made clear that their would be no chance of survival, being told that your entire party is stood directly underneath many hundreds of tons of teetering rock and ice then casting 'Earthquake' to dislodge it, entering the feywild to visit the home of a serious power then using 'Chastise Spirits', jumping into a volcano, being told your location is warded against planar travel in the most gruesome of ways then going Ethereal anyway, being told that the crown atop the corpses head is radiating a hungry evil and that it matches the description of the soul eating Crown of Fools then putting it on anyway 'just to check' ... The list goes on.

The exact risk of perma death does change to suit the challenges of the request, you'd have to be seriously impressive to earn perma doom during a milk run, but it would be a serious and everpresent danger if you were on a mission to assassinate the Emperor.

[cmosier]

This brings back memories...

"We should make our stand here, Commander! We can do this!"

Ahhh... The better part of valor...

[Doubtful]

The creatures approach in an unnatural mass, thousands of dead things with a hunger that outshines John Goodmans is bearing down upon you. Their is no way your small party could fight them off...

*spawns loads of creatures, everyone but one fighter flees. The fighter start hacking away*

Beyond the handful you're fighting their are thousands more, here and there the taller frames of Deathknights can be seen and other dread and terrible things.

*spawns more creatures of a higher CR. Fighter emotes laughing*

As more creatures crush down upon you their can be no hope of survival, a sole sliver of hope resides in fleeing before you are surrounded and pulled down.

*spawns a few deathknights and really high CR creatures, keeping them back out of the fray. Fighter shouts "Comone you bastards, I'll kill you all, I'll never run."*

Your chance has gone, the wave of creatures engulfs you, perhaps they'll leave enough of your soul untarnished to allow you to enter the heaven of your choice.

*toggles Permadeath flag, spawns a bucket load of uber CR things and leaves to deal with the rest of the group who fled*


A few minutes later:

//lol, What the fuck man you totally killed me for no reason with those spawns. u should have warned me, give me a respawn.

no.

//ur a fucking shit dm. *logs off*




le sigh.

[[DM] Grinning Death]

Doubtful raises a fair point, as do the rest. But, mainly, it'd be for events that would likely result in death if you weren't on your toes.

As adventurers, you're naturally better at staying alive in dangerous situations than most other people. Going toe to toe with an orc chieftain is not exactly a reasonable thing to ask of most commoners in D&D. So, therefore, you're likely not to get perm'd in most scenarios.

However, what I have cookin' in the DM kitchen will require some tough choices on your parts. Some of these choices will lead to combat, others to dangerous situations where there isn't an easy out. Stupid choices will get you killed, and less than reasonable ones are likely to do the same.

I suppose I'm trying to say, is that normally we let you dig your own grave, and it has to be pretty deep. But mainly, I'm asking you guys if we can make that grave a little more shallow on your part, making it easier for your decisions to lead to death.

[cmosier]

Tell: Byrun wouldn't act that way if he weren't surrounded by Blackwood Mercenaries.

You're absolutely correct. :-) Should Byrun lose everything, I've already plotted him becoming a ranger and hiding a lot.

I'm more accepting of Perma-Death in pen and paper than on a Game like NWN2. Turn based has a lot to do with it. It they could do Temple of Elemental Evil as an MMO that would be awesome...

[Grey-Moth]

I suppose I'm trying to say, is that normally we let you dig your own grave, and it has to be pretty deep. But mainly, I'm asking you guys if we can make that grave a little more shallow on your part, making it easier for your decisions to lead to death.

That's a tough one, honestly. I don't think I could give a answer well-thought out enough on the situation. I know that's not a particularly helpful answer, but it so it doesn't seem I spontaneously lost interest in the topic, or simply got grumpy and buggered off I have to check off box number three.

1: Yes
2: No
3: Uh... *shrug*

[sonuvalich]

Still voting sure, provided it is based on decisions and not crappy luck on a roll. However, should you strike me down I am rerolling as Gandelf Stormpigeon, sun elf master of the arcane!