Writing

[Vaelek]

How about instead of telling anyone what they are doing is wrong, we instead try to encourage them to improve and help them.

Are you new to the internet?

[OnyxTigress]

I will new you in the face.

[Elusa]

8 CHA pageant queens..

This in particular.

[Atmosphere]

That is, Sundren has an alarmingly high number of 10 INT / 10 WIS philosophers and 8 CHA pageant queens..

Hush. I look great!

[Laurk]

Im not a big fan of all the rolls I see thrown around either in polite convorsation. The only one I use pretty liberally is the sense motive score. But I use this, not so much for sensing lies, but because I play an insightful character whose good at reading body language and visual cues. So often, ill send someone a tell and ask if Abby can gain any insight into an expression, emote, or comment someone made to guage their mood or meaning. I pretty much consider it voluntary information that they can offer or not.

With Dilpomacy, I might send a tell saying: "Abby is a trained diplomat and will be using her body language, tone and deliverty to make this message sound as non-threatening as possible. My diplomacy is 29, do you want me to roll?"

Bluff to me is the most misused roll. As soon as you say something to me, then roll a bluff check, I know OOC that you're lying. So don't roll bluff. To me one of the only times bluff should be used when both players know OOC that something isn't true. For example if someone has a polymorph spell on and looks like a halfing, and they tell me their name is Bilbo Baggins, but OOC stuff I recognise the name of a halforc PC. That would be a bluff a good chance for a bluff check (assuming there was a reason to suspect).

I use sense motive to look for a lie when my I suspect someone of lying to me. When I do ill send them a tell asking if I can use sense motive. I ask them to roll bluff (or not roll if not applicable) in secret and then tell me what my character might get out of it. I don't ever want to see a bluff roll because its OOC info I don't want. Ive yet to have cheat at this as far as I know.

[ManUtd4Ever]

Bluff to me is the most misused roll.

What I find frustrating with Bluff is when it is used to support the most outrages statements of non-truth that effect the person being lied to and not about the person actually lying.

If Joe-Anybody approaches my character, let’s say Angus, and claims that Angus’ parents were abducted by aliens and bred with toads… then rolls Bluff, Angus is going to know that is absolute nonsense. He is likely to open whoop-arse on the person making off color comments about his Dwarven lineage.

But, if Angus is told by Joe-Anybody that his parents were abducted by aliens and bred with toads… then rolls Bluff, Angus is going to believe him or at a minimum find him to be marginally credible.

Some people play along with outrageous Bluff rolls because it can be very funny; there are a lot of witty people on Sundren. At other times, it can hijack the conversation and serve as a distraction.

Cheers!

[YakaryBovine]

Bluff to me is the most misused roll. As soon as you say something to me, then roll a bluff check, I know OOC that you're lying. So don't roll bluff. To me one of the only times bluff should be used when both players know OOC that something isn't true. For example if someone has a polymorph spell on and looks like a halfing, and they tell me their name is Bilbo Baggins, but OOC stuff I recognise the name of a halforc PC. That would be a bluff a good chance for a bluff check (assuming there was a reason to suspect).

I suppose I should apologize to you for this. I plead guilty to doing this with alarming frequency. So often, in fact, that it makes me feel like you're probably talking about me. I'm surprised you haven't mentioned it to me directly.

Part of the reason I do it is because my character is just an acting role, and I think it's important to highlight that while I am a good liar, Arden actually has -1 Bluff. Certainly I could convey his inability to lie through in-character descriptive language, which I do, but I feel a need to the game's mechanics to demonstrate the incompetency of my character in that area.

I don't think this is a very good example of a "misuse", as it seems more personal preference than anything else. I'll be sure to stop rolling so much in our future interactions, though.

[Mournas]

Know what? Screw skills, totally pointless, and this thread ... I'm going to bed. *Rolls 61 on his Diplomacy Roll*

[Vaelek]

The only one I use pretty liberally is the sense motive score. But I use this, not so much for sensing lies, but because I play an insightful character whose good at reading body language and visual cues. So often, ill send someone a tell and ask if Abby can gain any insight into an expression, emote, or comment someone made to guage their mood or meaning. I pretty much consider it voluntary information that they can offer or not.

No, please no. This bothers me to no end when people do it excessively. Emotes are this. Sense Motive for emotes that underline that someone is smiling in response to something is horrendously irksome. If you're good at reading body language, look for emotes. Judge off of that emote what someone is inching towards. Not everyone emotes with the same level of competence mid-conversation, but I find most Sundren role-players are very adept at offering physical gesticulation to go alongside words.

I wouldn't fight this to a bitter end, but Sense Motive is made interesting and even entertaining when saved for rare occasion. You feel that someone is hiding something from you mid-negotiation, you roll Sense Motive to determine whether they're being misleading or something to that effect. That's a great use of Sense Motive, it's a respectable turn of invested skill points that may save you in-character because you caught on.

But,

But I use this, not so much for sensing lies, but because I play an insightful character whose good at reading body language and visual cues.

just becomes painful in my humble opinion. Skills have their place in conversations, but you don't need excessive rolls of Sense Motive to judge interaction with someone especially if they're emoting. Unless the situation especially warrants extra scrutiny into that gesture or turn of phrase.

Even if I'm shot down twenty times for this opinion and it's deemed incorrect, nothing destroys my desire to role-play more than excessive skill rolls in a mundane atmosphere.

[Lotus]

Sense Motive is for honesty and dishonesty. It has nothing to do with empathy or your feels.

[Elusa]

No, please no. This bothers me to no end when people do it excessively. Emotes are this. Sense Motive for emotes that underline that someone is smiling in response to something is horrendously irksome. If you're good at reading body language, look for emotes.

Skills have their place in conversations, but you don't need excessive rolls of Sense Motive to judge interaction with someone especially if they're emoting.

In Abby's defense, she's only used sense motive with me like twice, and it was times when I wasn't emoting as much as I should.

[Fuzziebunny]

I think maybe don't take this derailed thread so seriously. If you like to roll then roll. You play how you play, but I think it is not a bad thing to read the oppinon of others. This is not that serious though. Maybe be less inclined to take any of this personal. I honestly can't think of a single bad RPer on Sundren or anyone that I would not have a good time RPing with. And I think maybe most peeps feel the same? <3 to you all!!

[Elusa]

Was going to split off into a separate thread when it got to the fifth page, but I couldn't be bothered.

But yeah, the people who abuse rolls constantly tend to not stay on the server long.

[[DM] Grinning Death]

Sense Motive is for honesty and dishonesty. It has nothing to do with empathy or your feels.

Eh? SRD 20 says that it does in fact have to do with your 'hunches' on a situation, though, and if there's something 'wrong' with a situation. Not only that, but it can be used to see if someone is being influenced through magic, as well as discerning secret messages (as if anyone uses that function).

I think it's fine to use these rolls if the opposing player gives you a good reason to. It's always polite to request a roll.

[cmosier]

Im not a big fan of all the rolls I see thrown around either in polite convorsation. The only one I use pretty liberally is the sense motive score. But I use this, not so much for sensing lies, but because I play an insightful character whose good at reading body language and visual cues. So often, ill send someone a tell and ask if Abby can gain any insight into an expression, emote, or comment someone made to guage their mood or meaning. I pretty much consider it voluntary information that they can offer or not.

When I speak of those I believe do it correctly, you're on that list.

1. You ask and are polite about it.

2. When Abby succeeded with Byrun she didn't take it as "I know exactly what's going on." She continued to ask her uncomfortable Abby questions to follow up on her hunch.