Toleration

[undeadsteak]

Sure, theres lots of evils out there. But they are not grouping together and attacking people in groups, like the drow did. theyre just in their own universe, with their own plans, and totally weak without any friends.

[CharmedImSure]

Interesting thread/discussion and what I am seeing most of is people complaining there are no Drow anymore being the main cause of things apparently going 'Vanilla'.

Well, to this I say: Conflict is where you find it. It resides with no one specific race, people, class, or alignment. If it is not there, then you arent looking or just outright ignoring the possibility.

Look at real life: See any Drow working in the next cubicle? No, but I bet you got something against the jerk down the hall that just wont shutup or that Corporation that seems to always get out of any legal battles unscathed. What about that religious sect that you completely loathe and would like to see disappear?

My point is, alot of the same things exist in-game so look around. There are -plenty- of reasons for conflict and hanging all the excitement on one Race is just...well...limiting yourselves. Dig in resource books if you have to, but its there

[Bindragon]

One thing to take into consideration about tolerance is that it is a necessity for some of us players to play a mostly tolerant character so that we can actually have a chance to see and enjoy various parts of the server. I for one get on sparringly, at non-peak hours, and have a character that cannot solo worth a snot. I'm simply not going to be able to join groups and get the "protection" I need if I piss players off. I then stand around hoping and eventually log off with little to do.

But I do think subtlety is important in how you display your ill-affections toward other races. For me, it's boring to watch one player outright flame another with obvious race-hate Rping. I'd much rather experience a gradual display of why a character dislikes another.

[undeadsteak]

From what I saw, The drows went away because a few people started whining over how they died in PvP. They made great conflict, and they worked together as a group, so it was tough to fight them.. All the other evils are just seperated, as I said in my earlier post.. So because a few people want to have everything peaceful, and dont like getting killed, now we miss out in alot of RP.

[valenator]

This thread isn't about "Why I miss the drow." This is a discussion of the general lack of intolerance for other races and the whys and why nots. Please stay on topic. If you want to reminisce about drow, start another thread.

[undeadsteak]

. . . Your point? Drows played a huge roll on hatred for other races. Last I recall, the OP said something about drows as well.

[Valkyrie]

This thread isn't about "Why I miss the drow." This is a discussion of the general lack of intolerance for other races and the whys and why nots. Please stay on topic. If you want to reminisce about Drow, start another thread.

Good point. Remember, there's nothing wrong with being "prejudiced". In game the pre-conceptions are there for a reason. 99% or so of the Drow are Evil and deserving of scorn. Warlocks channel power from the very font that is Chaos and Evil itself. In D&D and NWN there really are absolutes that characters can rail against; that's half the fun.

Please avoid phrasing IC conflicts are being disrespectful OOC. I'm certainly not a Paladin of Torm, any more than someone else is a Warlock of Asmodeus. We're supposed to want each other dead, and that's within the character.

Right, this is nothing from me as DM, but as a player. But Im sure Im not the only one noticing that 90 % of the population is accepting EVERYONE around them until they 'prove' otherwise. From a personal I'd say.. come on.. that is just really really booooring

He has a good point, and as stated above, the conflicts are there for a reason. If you can't have the stigma of being of a rival background, then where's the fun? Half the game is the setting.

[valenator]

. . . Your point?

Right, this is nothing from me as DM, but as a player. But Im sure Im not the only one noticing that 90 % of the population is accepting EVERYONE around them until they 'prove' otherwise. From a personal I'd say.. come on.. that is just really really booooring

You don't have to run away from eachother right away, but a little tension wouldn't be bad now would it.
It's like everyone behaves the same to every race as they would to humans. It's silly ( and once again, boring ! ) if you ask me. and Im not just talking about tieflings and drows, but also the common races such as dwarves and elves.

I'd like to see more people holding grudges, dislikes, some nasty comments and stuff to other races. It makes the characters much more interesting.

What's your thoughts ?

[big phat edit] This is a serious discussion. I'd like to know other people's views.

just find it weird no one looks odd at characters with demon blood in them, or at the spawn of orc<>human union, let alone half elves. They stand next to them like they were one of their own.

Loosing the evil Drow characters has done a major disservice to Sundren.

In my opinion, just when the Drow interactions were becoming much better... the drow were removed.

I miss the drow.

Just before the end of the drow, I was involved in quite a few drow interactions with no PVP that was extremely rewarding because of the high tension with still a favorable outcome.

Not all the same people and characters are still playing that were playing back when the drow were around causing all that conflict.

Sure, theres lots of evils out there. But they are not grouping together and attacking people in groups, like the drow did.

From what I saw, The drows went away because a few people started whining over how they died in PvP. They made great conflict, and they worked together as a group, so it was tough to fight them..

That's my point.

[Wargrave]

I was one of the elitist asshole Elves on the server as well as many others for a time. But sadly, like the drow, some players couldn't deal with it OOCly and started complaining, so I/We toned it down a notch or two. It seemed to have an effect on all of us at the time and still does at least for me. We do far less grouping together as a race now and i kinda miss all the inspired RP that these folks ruined. I know it took the wind out of my sails.

[Valkyrie]

Why not just go back to fully playing your characters then? This is a high roleplay server, after all.

Lesson learned, new way isn't as fun, so have them revert to their older ways and problem solved. Everyone here is a serious roleplayer, so noone should have a problem with it.

[GodBeastX]

*Rolls his eyes*

Here we go. Too much pvp, now too little. Which is it?

[CharmedImSure]

Why not just go back to fully playing your characters then? This is a high roleplay server, after all.

Lesson learned, new way isn't as fun, so have them revert to their older ways and problem solved. Everyone here is a serious roleplayer, so noone should have a problem with it.

Can't disagree with that

[Janus]

Well the reason I brought the Drow into the discussion is that this topic is that we were discussing tollerance.

People are only intollerant when they feel threaterned. Take the Tieflings as an example. Anyone feel threaterned by the Tieflings out there? I know I don't.

The Drow are, as far as I can see the only sustainable source of PC threat available to the game. The orcs tried to be a threat and as has already been noted were hunted to near extinction. This is because they didn't have a place to retreat to. The Drow have the Underdark a place no sane PC would go if they value their character (or at least that's the way it should be).

As has already been noted the Drow worked well together because their social structure is already maped out plus they have to in order to survive.

Roleplay needs threat. This is the long and the short of it. If people don't feel threaterned they have no reason to co-operate, to organise and to form alliances. I'm not convinced by any of the arguements I have heard against it here, without threat it just turns into hack and slash which is dull, dull, dull, dull, dull!

Bring back the Drow!

As to the too much/too little PVP, definately a good question. I would say that we need more PVP though to make it more DM guided. People don't like to feel like they are being picked on because instinctively it makes they feel there is something wrong with them. It's not a conscious process and it's not one anyone can be blamed for. If people think it's all just part of plot however then it becomes impersonal and you can just relax back and enjoy the RP.

Obeying the rules for PVP would be a good thing too. Make any evil characters extremely good role players and make sure they realise that they are not trying to damage other players but to challenge them and make sure all the players realise this as well.

We need to make PVP safe and fun but still challenging.

[Minnoko]

Having read this, I'm tempted to bring another character of mine out of retirement.

Need to make the game work online first though : / Maybe tomorrow.

[Brage]

Sorry for butting in, since I haven't yet had the chance to play here

*Rolls his eyes*

Here we go. Too much pvp, now too little. Which is it?

heh, I actually think that's for the staff to decide, since there will always be players who are for it, and those who are against it. Having been a staff member on a few NWN1 servers I've seen this kind of discussion before, and usually removing the possibility of having evil PCs (and not allowing them to actually do/affect things) makes the server a more dull place to be.

I think the staff could say something like "hey, it's a fantasy world, characters aren't supposed to always play nice - try to keep ooc and ic separate and enjoy the conflicts" or some such.

Having places where PvP is impossible, such as a good-aligned church with too many guards, for instance, could be a good idea, so that some RPers can get away from the PvP (or Character vs Character, as I prefer).

Just my two kronors!