Toleration

[Clutch]

Right, this is nothing from me as DM, but as a player. But Im sure Im not the only one noticing that 90 % of the population is accepting EVERYONE around them until they 'prove' otherwise. From a personal I'd say.. come on.. that is just really really booooring

You don't have to run away from eachother right away, but a little tension wouldn't be bad now would it.
It's like everyone behaves the same to every race as they would to humans. It's silly ( and once again, boring ! ) if you ask me. and Im not just talking about tieflings and drows, but also the common races such as dwarves and elves.

I'd like to see more people holding grudges, dislikes, some nasty comments and stuff to other races. It makes the characters much more interesting.

What's your thoughts ?

[big phat edit] This is a serious discussion. I'd like to know other people's views.

[valenator]

I'm with you, Clutchmeister. Lot of racial tolerance that I wouldn't think should be there. I've got one tolerant character, a Cleric of Lathander, whose dogma emphasizes racial tolerance.

It's amazing how many people will jump on you for bigotry, like the Realms are some ultra-enlightened bastion for civil rights. Burn the drow, I say. Lynch the tieflings! And, for God's sake, someone toss some old lettuce at that half-orc!

[cmosier]

I personally think my character has enough grudges, but hell I can add a few more.

[Clutch]

That's not necesarry cmosier. I just find it weird no one looks odd at characters with demon blood in them, or at the spawn of orc<>human union, let alone half elves. They stand next to them like they were one of their own.

[valenator]

Half-Elves are generally accepted in human society, but not the converse. With half-orcs...well, I mean, one, they're ugly. Two, they're usually the product of an orc raping a human. That's a stigma right away.

[Janus]

I agree there is a problem with a lack of tension.

Loosing the evil Drow characters has done a major disservice to Sundren. They were a great plot device that added tension and interest to the game. They gave everyone a common enemy to rally against who wasn't a GM based NPC. What was even better was that they were other players, meaning they were going to be every bit as clever and inventive as you.

Now they are gone the server has become just a hack and shash fest with players vs monsters ad nausium.

In an ideal world I would like to see the re-introduction of evil drow as a playable race but obviously this isn't going to happen unless some underdark areas are created for the Drow to retreat to /train in.

I appreciate the point of view that we should create areas that everyone can use however I think what the Evil drow bring to the game is goes far beyond simply having areas. They create genuine tension and excitement and from that they create genuine role playing which is what this server is supposed to be about. If you don't have these plot devices you are forced to rely on DMs who, good as they are, can't run things for everyone at once. Without the plot devices the game turns into just giving lip service to your character whilst you wander around killing monsters (which is boring!!!).

[valenator]

I disagree with all but the first three sentences of your post. The drow were nixed because a number of players lacked the ability/maturity/whatever to properly roleplay the conflict. Losing the drow was in the best interest of the server.

Not having clear, immediate PC enemies doesn't devolve this server into a "hack and slash." Plenty of opportunities for roleplay exist outside of hunting for drow. PC evil isn't necessary for a healthy, rp-based Persistent World; the DMs provide the "bad guys" for the "good guys." However, to further dismantle your argument, evil factions exist on the server, which PC's can join through the proper roleplay channels and DM approval, thus creating the outlet for immediate PC<->PC conflict. Back on topic...

Perhaps part of the problem is the Forgotten Realms novels, where Drizz't, the "good drow," is portrayed as one of the great heroes of Faerun. He's embraced by a Dwarven king, one of the mightiest human warriors alive in Wulfgar, some elves, an incredibly powerful Cleric in Cadderly Bonaduce, blah de blah. In reality, it's a wonder he wasn't hacked to pieces in his first couple weeks on the surface.

The prejudice against drow, or tieflings, or whatever other races doesn't mirror modern, real life racial prejudice, as we're all "human." The Forgotten Realms races don't even have that in common. They are all literally entirely different species. This is where the widespread tolerance confuses me.

[grumblecake]

Sunites are tolerant people!

[Felnak]

In my opinion, interactions in Sundren have changed due to PC change.

I have noticed that the vast majority of PCs are highly polarized in one or more directions.... Good, Evil, Chaotic, Lawful, Tolerant, Intolerant, etc. We have a mix of extremes with very little at the middle of the bell curve. That makes for one wacky unstable concoction. Taking a few PCs out could influence significant change in many interations. PCs who may model another PCs behavior could now be absent their role model thus resulting in significant change of interactions.

Several months ago it seems the elves where the assholes of Sundren, pissed off at everyone and pissing off everyone... as of late, they have largely mellowed out. Those Red Wizards of Thay were real pains in the ass and really liked giving it to the elves... where the hell are they now? Half orcs were running around killing and/or robbing others and tormenting elves... since then, they have been nearly hunted to extinction. Then there was the whole drow drama sneaking around, blowing up everything in sight and PKing every poor bastard around... that has waned to absolutely nothing. Of course these storylines have run their course but there has been some PC turnover and change in each of these groups resulting in a serious decline in antagonism.

The undead line is very powerful and seems to be dominating at the moment but it just does not have the PCs involved on the evil side. Here, I mostly see PCs vs DM generated opponents and less PCs vs PCs. PCs vs PCs just generate more drama and angst. Maybe recruit some more PCs into the evil storyline to help generate much more animosity between certain PCs.

Oh well... the only constant is change.

Felnak

[InquisitorFury]

I agree there is a problem with a lack of tension.

Loosing the evil Drow characters has done a major disservice to Sundren. They were a great plot device that added tension and interest to the game. They gave everyone a common enemy to rally against who wasn't a GM based NPC. What was even better was that they were other players, meaning they were going to be every bit as clever and inventive as you.

Now they are gone the server has become just a hack and shash fest with players vs monsters ad nausium.

In an ideal world I would like to see the re-introduction of evil drow as a playable race but obviously this isn't going to happen unless some underdark areas are created for the Drow to retreat to /train in.

I appreciate the point of view that we should create areas that everyone can use however I think what the Evil drow bring to the game is goes far beyond simply having areas. They create genuine tension and excitement and from that they create genuine role playing which is what this server is supposed to be about. If you don't have these plot devices you are forced to rely on DMs who, good as they are, can't run things for everyone at once. Without the plot devices the game turns into just giving lip service to your character whilst you wander around killing monsters (which is boring!!!).

Well, one of the major reasons the Drow PC's were removed (I was one of them) was due to many people upset over the idea of PC's being evil and they did not like the conflict. Sadly though... the Drow are gone.

[undeadsteak]

Yup, gotta agree with Grumblecakes.. Some chars are just tolerant to everything, due to some reason.

[InquisitorFury]

Actually Sune can be a real bitch. She is a flighty and arrogent woman as a goddess, her clergy do not like non-beautiful people and things... and although they shouldnt more often then not they look down upon them and can be downright rude.

[Autumn]

I agree that tension between races should be stepped up a little, but there are always exceptions, of course. I just happened to read something about people from Silverymoon being especially tolerant of almost all races, even certain drow. I'm not implying that everyone's pc is from Silverymoon, lol, only that there are probably many reasons that aren't blatantly obvious why a pc might not be very prejudiced.

It would bring about lots of interesting rp if pc's started questioning other pc's about their odd behavior.

Player A: Why are you even hanging out with that pitiful excuse for an intelligent
being?

Player B: Well, where I grew up, blah, blah, blah...

Now Player A knows much more about Player B's background than he/she was likely to discover through mundane conversation about the weather.

[CrimsonTears]

As a brief reply, the drow being gone is a non-issue. There's still plenty of evil people around who don't do much to hide it. People just got a lot more tolerant to them, tho. We see paladins talking to skeletons and vampires, for exemple

There is conflict to be had, but people seem to have split into two groups: the low levels who hunt goblins and the high levels who hunt undead. There are some inbetween who go to either group just after interaction. We have plots happening, but everyone (PCs and DMs) seems to forget about them little after they are finished.

"Ah yes, we just stopped an undead invasion while the gate shot lightning bolts at us. There's some evil sharran around too, fought some big shadows the other day. Wanna play cards or kill some zombies?"

[undeadsteak]

Inquistor, Thats true, but I Mean having hatred to like tieflings, or drows, and stuff like that.. My bad for my earlier post for saying "Tolerant to Everything".