Toleration

[Clutch]

As a brief reply, the drow being gone is a non-issue. There's still plenty of evil people around who don't do much to hide it.

It's not a non-issue thank you. It says alot about some of the players here and it's a damn shame.

[CrimsonTears]

In the light of them causing conflict, it is a non-issue. There are still things to cause conflict out there, but people aren't getting into conflict with them. Maybe they don't want conflict with other players?

[Felnak]

Well, one of the major reasons the Drow PC's were removed (I was one of them) was due to many people upset over the idea of PC's being evil and they did not like the conflict. Sadly though... the Drow are gone.

In my opinion, just when the Drow interactions were becoming much better... the drow were removed. If people are upset over PCs being evil and not liking the resultant conflict, then I feel they are missing out on some highly charged drama. Yes, I am not too excited about evil PCs because they can get out of control and act inappropriately to others, but evil PCs really add to the drama of a storyline. DM generated with PC assisted drama can be so much more robust than just DM generated drama... it just needs careful guidance.

Felnak

[Clutch]

In the light of them causing conflict, it is a non-issue. There are still things to cause conflict out there, but people aren't getting into conflict with them. Maybe they don't want conflict with other players?

... please. The drow (PC's yes) caused some of the most interesting conflict there has been because they also fueled it, as it should be. They are a great example of how it should be done.

Because I also wonder why tieflings don't look down at puny humans most of the time. Fueling a little dismay makes things interesting aswell. Same goes for classes and religion among other things.

[Autumn]

There are still things to cause conflict out there, but people aren't getting into conflict with them. Maybe they don't want conflict with other players?

I don't really care for conflict with other players, but I completely understand the necessity of it. I think the server would become rather boring if everyone just got along. I admit, I often attempt to make my pc's with some reason to be highly tolerant in an effort to avoid conflict. It's quite possible, as CrimsonTears suggested, that other players are doing the same thing, resulting in an unusually tolerant community.

[undeadsteak]

I miss the drow. They made everything more fun, more dangerous, more risky, and gave alot more RP. Now its just boring without any PC's fighting each other. There were some rp in those battles..

[Felnak]

... please. The drow (PC's yes) caused some of the most interesting conflict there has been because they also fueled it, as it should be. They are a great example of how it should be done.

Right on! And as mention in my original post, a number of other PC fueled/assisted conflicts are now absent for one reason or another.

[wangxiuming]

Being intolerant can get quite lonely, especially since Sundren is so diverse. I also generally try to keep my characters open-minded, just because there's enough conflict in real life - I don't need to stir up more in a game. Plus, I know it's sometimes hard to separate the character from the player and the last thing I want is to make another player angry or feel like I've snubbed them.

That said, drama is what makes RP interesting. Maybe if it were easier to find like-minded compatriots who could share your prejudices, it'd be easier to be a little more prejudiced.

[CrimsonTears]

My point is simply: drow != conflict.

There is reason enough for conflict out there, even without drow. Clerics of evil entities, tieflings who flaunt their demonic roots, warlocks who give backing to the assumption all of them are evil, people who use undead in front of a church of Kelemvor and say they will kill anyone who attacks their pet... the list goes on.

Yet, conflict isn't happening between players. Or, it is, but not in the same level as before and PvP hasn't been the result of it most of the time. It's not the server who is lacking inter-PC conflicts, it's people who seem to have choosen to be that way.

[Felnak]

I miss the drow. They made everything more fun, more dangerous, more risky, and gave alot more RP. Now its just boring without any PC's fighting each other. There were some rp in those battles..

Yes, well said... "more fun, more dangerous, more risky" Just before the end of the drow, I was involved in quite a few drow interactions with no PVP that was extremely rewarding because of the high tension with still a favorable outcome.

Felnak

[Cimex]

I think part of the problem is that lots of people in RP games, both computer and tabletop, don't know how to create and enjoy good conflict WITHOUT it coming to violence.

Next time you get in an argument with another player, play it up, but then why not choose to be the one to back down and walk away? Even if you're the 'more powerful' character, you can find a reason to leave if you're clever enough. Maybe they're not worth your time. Or perhaps you'll have one of your underlings deal with them at a later time....the possibilities are pretty limitless.

Or, be petty. Start rumors about people as a form of revenge. Casually drop them around others that you might party with.

Try not being a darn hero so much of the time. I remember a particular instance where a drow, which my character has befriended, was getting challenged by another character. I decided not to say anything about it because, well, my character isn't a hero, and, already being a foreigner, I was afraid the mob mentality might target me too if it got wound up. Even if your character is the type who would step in and defend the helpless, they don't have to do it right away. Be distracted by something else and let it play out for a bit before stepping in for your heroics...let the mob build.

[Felnak]

My point is simply: drow != conflict.

There is reason enough for conflict out there, even without drow. Clerics of evil entities, tieflings who flaunt their demonic roots, warlocks who give backing to the assumption all of them are evil, people who use undead in front of a church of Kelemvor and say they will kill anyone who attacks their pet... the list goes on.

Yet, conflict isn't happening between players. Or, it is, but not in the same level as before and PvP hasn't been the result of it most of the time. It's not the server who is lacking inter-PC conflicts, it's people who seem to have choosen to be that way.

I believe that the server IS lacking inter-PC conflict AND people have chosen less conflict. Not all the same people and characters are still playing that were playing back when the drow were around causing all that conflict. Check out my original post. Many of the major inter-PCs conflicts are missing because one of the major PCs is absent. These inter-PC conflicts have been replaced by grade B inter-PC conflicts at best. Also, many players were chastised for months for being quite intolerant of others. Earlier was a time of conflict... now is a time of reduced conflict. The world has changed!

Felnak

[pook]

I think part of the problem is that lots of people in RP games, both computer and tabletop, don't know how to create and enjoy good conflict WITHOUT it coming to violence.

Well said. Most players I've met online and off have that same problem. Since they are playing a game and won't actually get punched in the face, they will never back down, even when it's what their char would actually do if faced with that situation.
My main char is quite a wuss and has run away from more than one situation.

[Akitsuki]

i think that might begin to change with the Faction system i know that Esiela, my new character, while its not what i had planned emediatly has been forced into conflict with the churches...

look farward to having another PC villian though this one wont be homicidal like isiovien. She just wants love but most people dont want to give it to her

[Narvath]

Yes well, actually the situation is like : PC vs. undeads and hmm some monsters here and there. My character as some could have seen is way too much tolerant and he will probably die of it but I do think too that it would be a good idea to have some evil PCs (I wanna be evil ) to reactivate Sundren's RP spirit. The predictable actions are getting a bit boring, we know that our only enemies are undeads in the necropolis and if we are lucky, vampires at night. I mean, I know the DMs are working hard on this and I must thank them with all I could do, but still. Evil PCs should come back.