Elf faction

[Doubtful]

My intention wasn't to trivialize or casually dismiss other peoples memories of times gone by, as I said I enjoy a good reminisce as much as anyone else. Memories, personal and shared, are always important; the past is not there to be emulated, but instead to inspire a better future.

I think there's a general agreement here though, elves can be cool, but a purely elf focused faction would have massive storyline problems settling in to the current lore of Sundren.

[Zoberraz]

Kasso mentioned that Sundren's conflicts were more about alignment axises rather than racial tension. I don't disagree... though I do believe that one problem people have is how LG, LE and CE have good representation, but not CG.

There's a void. A 'sense of belonging' that's missing. Hence people will try to reach out for it. This thread about an elven faction might just be one of them. It's a tall order to please all the various people whom might fall through the cracks, though.

Saulus think druids/rangers sucks, and have no place in hostile forests. Fine. No support for dwarf/elf/halfling/gnome factions. Fine. but it doesn't change the void, and how the only way to confront the evils of Sundren while being on the Light Side of the Force is via the Arbiter's Alliance if you want to be part of the juicier DM-driven storylines.

I'm not being snarky, but you more or less admitted it. A cynic could miscontrue that into a statement: "We catter to LG, LE and CE people and promote factions that will enhance their experience thusly... and the rest of you have to beg for scraps if individual DMs so feel inclined."

As an organization, the Legion casts a wide umbrella - most classes fit in there, with some thematically fitting more with the Red Blades and the Triad (if you worship the right deities), and the Hand of Mundus. I know there was no Arbiter's Alliance when the CoV was around, so I pretty much consider that faction one of the best things that ever happened to the server.

On this line of thought, though, would it be possible to implement something that could offer near-equivalent cause and import (law always kind of ahead) that could fill in most of what falls through the cracks? A common banner that could have some uses for rangers and druids just as much as could hold appeal for dour dwarves, haughty elves and mischievous gnomes?

In FR, Silvermoon succeeds at being a cause such parties can gather and fight for. Now, I'm not saying the Silver Marches have anything to do with Sundren so much as pointing out a successful example. Wouldn't it be a laudable goal to design something, in Sundren and for Sundren's themes, that would cater in similar fashion? I mean, the complaints and whines have cropped up here and there enough so that an effective way to 'plug that hole' could be attractive even from a staff point of view, right?

* * *

Tangent:
I like the Winter Fey idea. Then again, I'm biased!

I'm not sure we've the same idea of what seelie/unseelie is, though. I've always seen it less an good/evil axis so much as a code of behavior for fey and a kind of worldview.

Seelie fey can come in different varieties and inclinations - benignly shy, haughtily indifferent, mischieviously playful, coldly cruel... but they generally care when people play by their rules. So, if for example, a human would approach such a fey and treat it with courtesy, the fey in question might indulge the mortal into being given the same regard it would give another fey. It's a measure of respect, but it doesn't promise good behavior. Seelie fey appreciating respect and dispensing with the same so end up being in general less perilous than those that don't.

The Unseelie, by contrast, don't think much of humans at all. They're mortals, of finite lifespan and scrambling to find some oh-so-transient meaning to their lives. Why grant them anykind of consideration? If they come across you, you can just do whatever you fancy with them - you can toy with them, outwit them, abuse them all you want. And if they break it's not a big deal: there are more rutting elsewhere to make sure their numbers are kept high. Unseelie fey do tend on not being either respectful or considerate, and so generally make poor neighbors.

Other tangent for Snowmane:
Minael would be one case where people that care about their elven lore would say is an 'elf played right'.

I'd have been the first to say that Maia is 'an elf played wrong' since I portray her far less by her moon elf mortal roots and more as they fey she's becoming... but some people appear to disagree despite Maia not really getting along well with most elves she meets.

If you see an elf going about being played as a pointy-eared human, odds are it's an 'elf played wrong' to the people that value elven culture in FR enough to want it as its own faction. If you see a player waving the "was raised away from elves" to justify the difference, it kind of still falls in the 'elf played wrong' group for the purist. Heck, elves that end up worshiping a non-Seldarine deity could be considered from odd to deranged - even (or especially) if the diety overlaps an elven one (Sune/Hanali, Corellon/Mystra, Sehanine/Selune, Silvanus/Rillifane, Mielikki/Solonor...).

Usually, that kind of perception is left mostly unspoken out of respect for the players of such characters. Their characters, their circumstances, hopefully they'll have fun with that - even though that's not going to stop my character from having an IC opinion of that. But OoCly, such elitism over that IC ideal is often seen as rude.

But it ties in directly to the purpose of any elven faction existing, which is why I brought it up. If you want to be part of an elven faction, it's because you care about the representation of elves. But few people actually do stick to roleplaying elves that fit with most of the lore in the Forgotten Realms for them.

Not all elves need to be like that? True. Not all elves need to refer to themselves as "Tel'Quessir", know the Seldarine all that well, address each other as "quessir" and "etriel", enjoy drinking elverquisst during midsummer celebration, and have a ritual of handfasting before mating. Odds are many in a century would, but some don't.

Drizzt is an example of that and he's a pretty iconic elven character. He might even be a good character, depending on your tastes. Drizzt had little insight on the basics of 'what is was to be an elf' until Innovindil lectured him about it in a "you still know so little" fashion.

I don't expect Drizzt would have much use for an elven faction either. That kind of character would be unlikely to appreciate the 'cultural' value behind such. Hence, my point: not enough elf players really want it, and many wouldn't have a use for it anyways.

[wangxiuming]

How do you play an elf "right?" =X

[Twisted-Indoctrine]

How do you play an elf "right?" =X

You make sure they're not highlighted when selecting a character race.

[Doubtful]

Fine. No support for dwarf/elf/halfling/gnome factions. Fine.

The dwarves have a subfaction in Exigo - The Whurest.

On this line of thought, though, would it be possible to implement something that could offer near-equivalent cause and import (law always kind of ahead) that could fill in most of what falls through the cracks?

There has been some discussion in the past regarding an unaligned group or guild that people could join for Adventure! and hijinks. With the big update looming over us I wouldn't expect to see any development of that idea until some time after the update is implemented and settled.

Tangent:
I like the Winter Fey idea. Then again, I'm biased!

I'm not sure we've the same idea of what seelie/unseelie is, though. I've always seen it less an good/evil axis so much as a code of behavior for fey and a kind of worldview.

D&D takes its fey inspirations from a large number of sources and views them through a rather murky and often twee lens.

While not all seelie elves are evil and not all unseelie elves are good there are definate leanings toward those ends - Both sides of the court are likely to screw over humans though, tricks and pranks are a mainstay, bargins and etiquette are key in both courts and pray you never owe either a favour!

Most non-fey/fey interaction would happen down the Unseelie/Winter court path. Summer just doesn't like non fey unless they're outstandingly skilled or exceptionally beautiful - In the latter case as a woman you'd probably have more to fear from a lusty Oberon and the jealousy Titania than any joy of court frivolity.

WoTC have a write up on their view of the courts themselves Located Here

Anyway, to be a little clearer: Winter Fey is almost completely unlikely to happen. Mostly lore, but partly because of the sheer amount of work it would take to have even a sub set of either of the courts implemented.

[bipolar bear]

not sure if this would sort of take the subject in another direction.... but instead of a "faction" perhaps just and elven merchant might alow like minded elven chars to Frolic with each other.

maybe offer a discount or something to his race. this would eliminate the "faction" tital, and perhaps help support the in game player supported unoffical "faction" some are looking for.

that said, accsess to the faction stores is a main reason that folks join factions. if cutting down on factions was the plan, id say just open access to different merchants would make that a hell of a lot easier.

[Doubtful]

I'm going to point at the Dwarves here - The Skullcleavers are a fantastic player run group, together they've fostered a very dwarven spirit, they frequently run events for each other and other players and they manage themselves and their social group with great responsibility and style.

There have been times where membership has waned, sometimes almost extinguishing the group all together, but each time someone has come back and reignited the dwarven forges and made the group strong again.

They work as a group, share skills and talents and generally improve the flavour of the server all round.

They've done this with normal DM support. No special favours or aid grants, even when the dwarven faction, Whurest, was implemented the Skullcleavers stayed clear of it for a long time, preferring to be their own thing rather than risk being subsumed into Exigo.

Now, if the Dwarf players can manage to run their own faction, mine their own ore, smith high quality dwarven goods and enchant them with dwarven magic and runes, operate their own stores and generally roleplay out their own clan, why can't the elf players?

Do elves really need a helping hand above the normal DM run things? Is having a special store absolutely critical to the ability to operate an elven faction?

Why not see if you can start an elven clan or organization, grow it and nurture it amongst the player base and let it develop naturally. If it becomes a strong focal point then we may look at adding in some support in the same way we did with the dwarves. Until then I don't see the need for a special kickstarter just for the elves.

[Farmboy2003]

holy crap, yeah 2008 is a long time ago... I guess it all depends on the devs, and if players initiative means changes to the game world. I havent been here that long to know which is the case. But if the factions are to be kept down abit in the next big sundering, and that is within a months time, then its probably worth to take a step back and see what happens.

I'm sure someone will beat me with a stick for this, but what about harpers? It seems geographically plausable. Obvious CG faction with tonnes of backdrop. Is there a reason they're not involved in Sundren? Is it permissable to play a harper?

[Doubtful]

Harpers..

Nnnngh.. There have been hints of Harpers, both player and DM wise but at present they have no real presence in Sundren.

The class is locked, if someone wanted to play a Harper it would be much the same as anyone wanting to play as a member of a non-supported large organization (Such as being a Purple Knight, Shadowthief of Amn and so on) they'd have to submit a bio and get DM authorization before playing one in game.

[Zoberraz]

The dwarves have a subfaction in Exigo - The Whurest.

I stand corrected.

There has been some discussion in the past regarding an unaligned group or guild that people could join for Adventure! and hijinks. With the big update looming over us I wouldn't expect to see any development of that idea until some time after the update is implemented and settled.

I think this venture could actually be best served by the relatively neutral Exigo syndicate, as they seem like the kind of organization whom could have the entreprising spirit to support that kind of venture. Adventuring in the classical sense is a lot about risking life and limb to earn riches.

It doesn't sound inherently good or bad, which could give a useful contact point for any starting adventurer. It doesn't really fill the Chaotic Good void I was speaking about, though.

I wouldn't vote for the Harpers either. I'd much rather see something that's distinctive to Sundren itself.

It seems to me that there is the potential for an association of likeminded people whom could form a network of people, sponsored by certain other entities, resources and agents (which would be the PCs).

In Sundren, that could start with people of certain wealth and influence - idealistic nobles and retired former adventurers (like that old guy in hat mansion in Sestra) - whom might feel the Arbiter's Alliance is nice, but doesn't take care of everything the right way... meaning that an organism that could handle such 'problem solving' needs could be desirable. Certain churches like Sune, Oghma and Chauntea could provide added their sponsorship and support (Oghma's temple and the Sundren university seemed sometimes used as a research and information gathering outlet).

With 'friends in high places', such an organization might be able to earn its agents militia-like credibility, though those same agents would be under scrutinery too - even if you're CG, you have interest in keeping high standards to maintain credibility otherwise you hurt the organization and its aims as a whole.

I remember in Faerie-Maia's earlier times in Sundren that certain circumstances almost made it feel like that. Osclow was being the glue between a varied group of adventurers whom in turn had ties and contacts similar to what I wrote above - and that kind of network (supported by DM_Tome and some others that worked with him then) felt far more welcoming and fruitful to CG newbie Maia than anything else - including the Wardens of the Vale.

I feel that if that idea, which is intrinsic to Sundren already, could get the push that would make it more official beyond the upkeep of select players and specific DMs could pick up, become successful, and help fill that perceived void.

Anyway, to be a little clearer: Winter Fey is almost completely unlikely to
happen. Mostly lore, but partly because of the sheer amount of work it would take to have even a sub set of either of the courts implemented.

That's unfortunate. I don't remember which DM did it, but back when we were dealing with Peridan's and Cirion's corpus curse, our searches for the needed reagents for a cure required us to approach the desmene of a 'Faerie Lord Orpheus' in his Unseelie Court. With the Mossdale forest, some pre-prepared NPC pixies with custom 'fey resistances' gear, and a castle hall-like interior zone set up with 'faerie nobility'... he managed to set up what I felt was a pretty kickass event that greatly appealed to me.

I find it sad that such success could not be repeated.

[Doubtful]

That's unfortunate. I don't remember which DM did it, but back when we were dealing with Peridan's and Cirion's corpus curse, our searches for the needed reagents for a cure required us to approach the desmene of a 'Faerie Lord Orpheus' in his Unseelie Court. With the Mossdale forest, some pre-prepared NPC pixies with custom 'fey resistances' gear, and a castle hall-like interior zone set up with 'faerie nobility'... he managed to set up what I felt was a pretty kickass event that greatly appealed to me.

I find it sad that such success could not be repeated.

That's a little dramatic.

Don't mistake 'Not going to have a permanently established selection of maps, creatures, NPCs and sundries' for 'Never going to be seen in Sundren in any form again'

I don't doubt for a minute that DMs will fun Fey related stuff again.

[Peridan]

Be the change you want in the server.

Whether that means moving into the system and fostering change through petition and dedication to development and DM'ing, or using your player time to induce camaraderie through interactions from your player onward, asking the staff to create change or to alter the server to fill whatever void may be present is useless without action to support the talk.

I'm a firm believer in players stepping forward to not only play in the world that we all enjoy, but to contribute to it in a way that makes it richer for those who might discover it. Whether it's a lore contribution, or dedicating time as a DM, all of it creates a more vibrant atmosphere for us to play in.

As far as elves having their own faction, I personally believe that it isn't necessary. Elves are supposed to be the minority in Sundren, it's a predominately human nation. It was founded by humans, populated by humans, and is run by humans. It wouldn't make sense for an elven faction to exist without a significant elven group to back it 'behind the scenes' from a lore standpoint. The only other race related faction is the dwarven one, and it's an entire clan.

Also, elves are lame. ;-)

[Vaelek]

Also, elves are lame. ;-)

With the exception of <3Maia,


/thread.

[Thief Of Navarre]

Elves should all have irish accents and be bards /w druid levels. An elf by any other description is not an elf. Elves should be played as alien creatures cause to our 'human' way of thinking they are!

If I didn't love halflings so much I'd play an elf...

also Lol; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=avq9ABxMOys

[Leprechaun7]

That would make them Leprechauns as I have played under login Leprechaun7 on Nwn1. Currently playing Elven Ranger now and missing the Ranger shop.