Elf faction

[Silverleaf]

I was wondering about the lack of a Elf faction . I know there is the Wardens and the Vanguard but not every Elf is a Ranger or Druid.

Is it possible in the update to have a pure Elf Faction , or to include the non-ranger non-druid-elfs into a community and have the Vendor sell merchandise relevant to the community?

Is this a possibility?

[Saulus]

We are phasing out factions, not adding them. Also elves are a minority on Sundren, and any faction based on them just does not make any sense for the setting.

Even the Druids/Wardens really don't belong at all and the only reason they exist was a previous dev did everything in their power to shoe-horn it onto something where it never belonged.

When you really think of it, there's two forests in Sundren, and both are inhabited by extremely hostile tribes of Gnolls/Orcs... I don't think anyone would expect to find a hidden reserve in the middle of this hostile territory.

[Zoberraz]

Any elven faction established will have to be player sustained without support from the staff (speaking from experience on the topic, rather than for them - Wow Saulus, you were quick to reply! xD ). Sundren has themes to follow, and such representations of elvenkind are not part of it. This doesn't mean 'no elf-themed event ever' from DMs, mind you.

There was a time, back in 2007-2008, where there was a powerful elven faction that had its own subforum and a fort to itself. I should know: I lead it - The Council of Voices. It worked, did very well for itself… but it was also clique-ish and limited in scope despite its considerable membership. It was eventually expanded to include involvement with the non-Evil portions of what eventually became the Wardens of the Vale. That was an improvement and that worked very well, up until server wipe (Making a more secular elven faction would be, in my experience, a step backwards).

As it is, though, I don't see anything like that happening. Saulus has a vision of the stories he wants to tell on Sundren and focus on elves is not part of it. Doubtful even makes stabs at anything fairy/elf-related whenever such crop up, LOL!

Last but not least: there's also not enough player presence running strong-thematically 'elven' characters to make the venture remotely close to being successful.

[roguethree]

Also, elves. Yuck.

[Doubtful]

Doubtful even makes stabs at anything fairy/elf-related whenever such crop up, LOL!

You rang?

My stabs at elfdom/feyland are born of love, not hate. Or maybe it's some bitter borderland between the two.

Is it possible in the update to have a pure Elf Faction

The trouble with elves is that there is so little lore involving their precense in Sundren. Sundren was carved out from a geographically isolated wilderness by a pretty much entirely human expidition, its growth and development handled by human groups with human agendas. Sure, there may have been a few of the other good races involved in things, but it's always had a very human centric system. The only non-human good race that even had a presence in the valley prior to the human invasion and occupation are the dwarves of Whurest.

Given that Elves in FR are frequently portrayed as a little bit isolationist and disposed to stay within traditional home territories it would be a little bit jaring to have a brand new group of elves suddenly crop up in Sundren.

It could be possible to squeeze in a group of elves with some contrived discovery of a long lost civilisation in the Spine, but given the isolation value (probably going all the way back to the Crown Wars) I doubt it would be a non hostile faction for anyone, elves or no. Even then, rather than develop a group of snow elves it would probably be more fun to go the Winter Court/Unseelie fey route (And much more the Pratchett Lords and Ladies route over any fairy tweeness).

[Snowmane]

Last but not least: there's also not enough player presence running strong-thematically 'elven' characters to make the venture remotely close to being successful.

I am sorry, I dont want to derail the topic but as a player of an elven character I am curious what you consider a strong-thematically 'elven' character? I am not trying to be a jerk or spark a debate, I am just curious. Feel free to send me a PM instead of a reply if you'd rather not have this in the thread.

[roguethree]

Zoberraz means that a lot of elves don't act like elves. He's right.

[Kitsunestume]

James is a gnome.

Winter Court/Unseelie fey route (And much more the Pratchett Lords and Ladies route over any fairy tweeness).

And isn't this called Auril et.al.?

[Kaybrie]

Elven individuals get DM events and support just the same as others, DM given items are often pretty sweet stuff tailored to the characters etc etc. Factions and system should reflect the server lore, with leeway given to player groups who may pop up. But on the whole, factions should be easily immersible with the other factions and readily prepared to engage in the main story plots, diametrically opposed to other factions. Like the Black Hand and the Alliance, or the Legion and the Bloodmaim. These are factions with warlike aspects that make them readily prepared to fight one another.

Historically, elves have always been errant in Sundren, and as a race they're far from imperial. They simply don't have any reason to have anything more then a small embassy in Sundren, and the staff would sooner see them integrated into the existing factions to easily allow them to partake in the story.

I don't have any gripe with elves, but on the whole the attitudes often expressed by players who play elves (not going to name names, but there are at least a few.) have outright spoken that they'd show an IDGAF attitude toward everything not specifically elven related if they could. Which is exactly what we're pushing to avoid. Racial factions only work in a setting where racial tension is the focal point, where Sundren is far more about the conflict between good and evil, law and chaos.

[Doubtful]

And isn't this called Auril et.al.?

Kind of, though Auril's fey connections (confusing as they are, Auril calls herself the Queen of Air and Darkness and lore wise was corrupted in much the same way as the holder of that title in the books it's inspired by, but in FR it's hardly used at all, in Greyhawk another god exists holding that name as the Evil queen of all unseelie fey - Something Auril isn't! The Spellplague kills off the very vague real fey Queen of Air and Darkness but not Auril, so that's about as clear as very muddy milk.) are always somewhat underplayed.

So while Auril may ponce about in the snows being all sexeh but cold (I'm sure I remember reading an article about Auril being worshipped in warm southern regions as a diety of beauty/sex) her main tools are cold, winter wolves, bears with adamantine claws and her followers.

The Winter Court on the other hand is a crazy and twisted place, full of casual betrayal and evil monsters, the cold reaches of the feywild itself are supposed to be as dangerous and twisted, for in game purposes it might be best to think of the Trickster levels in Thief or a snowy version of Pandora: Beautiful, alien and bloody dangerous. About as much fun as a day trip to the Abyss.

But.. Yeah, not going to happen.

[Farmboy2003]

I once played in a nwn1 server called "The Frozen North". It was a great white cold server. But It also had a desert, as well as at least one geographical area buildable from the toolset - Needless to say I was deeply dissapointed.

My point is, a great RP world does not have include every bit of toolset (svamps, cold waste, desert, tundra etc.), and neither does it need every race, class or other specific feature to be 'equally represented'. In fact it most often breaks immersion if everything is available and possible. As an elf-player I can live with Sundren being not tailored to accomodating elves both IC and OOC, actually I woulnd't have it any other way.

But that said, Wouldn't a thing like the council of voices leave some sort of mark upon the world for the future? But of course, that is for the devs to decide.

[Doubtful]

But that said, Wouldn't a thing like the council of voices leave some sort of mark upon the world for the future? But of course, that is for the devs to decide.

There was a time, back in 2007-2008, where there was a powerful elven faction that had its own subforum and a fort to itself. I should know: I lead it - The Council of Voices. It worked, did very well for itself… but it was also clique-ish and limited in scope despite its considerable membership. It was eventually expanded to include involvement with the non-Evil portions of what eventually became the Wardens of the Vale. That was an improvement and that worked very well, up until server wipe

The Wardens of the Vale and the Vanguard are pretty much all that remains as a mark of the Council of Voices.

2008 was a long time ago - I joined the server as a player a little over 4 years ago in May 2008, this was already some time after the vault wipe and the Great Schism. During my time as a very active player (I was unemployed when I joined and racked up some serious play time) and DM I never encountered anyone (outside of a scant few forum posts) who'd been a member of the CoV.

I'm all for a good reminiscing. I fondly remember when all this was just fields, when Hanno and Tamryn were finding their feet in the Triumvirate, when Annie was struggling to become a badger, when Cybil was wearing Ilmaters stone balls as a teabagging necklace and when the single snowy map of the Cold Climb was the icy roost of Brughru the Snow Hag and all her orcish glory.

But those times have passed, a lot of history has happened and a lot of damn great roleplay has been typed out. Let's not get bogged down in trying to introduce elements of fond memories into the current set up. Just like New Rave it won't be as fun as you remember it. To quote The Mighty Boosh: "Elements of the past and the future combining to make something not quite as good as either"

Instead lets take what we have now and take it forward.

[wangxiuming]

If I remember correctly, the Council of Voices was pre-wipe I think. Or at least, if Alyrian (a post-wipe character), had known that such a thing existed back before he went all crazy, he would have tried to join up for sure.

[Fezzik]

I always wondered why Cybil's tea tasted off... someone should have told her!

[Zoberraz]

Doubtful. GBX once told me I had nearly a hundred days of cummulative playtime on Maia, with most of my time spent with her being the leader of the CoV, with a player memberbase around ten, with solidly half of them being consistently active and around. For two years, these people had their characters live in Sundren, a lot happened and they accomplished something. I don't see how wipes even matter all that much - those are memories. My memories aren't trivial or matter less just because you don't share them.

It doesn't have to matter to you. But I'd appreciate, for my sake and those involved in the past (along with Etria and Myrddin's player whom wanted to keep it going post-wipe but got no help from me), that you avoid dismissing it as something trivial. I understand your point, but I feel you do it too easily for me to not comment on it.

Regardless, I'm proud of what the people in the CoV accomplished. It may be a thing of the past, but I think it has a lot of lessons learned in the doing. Here, I brought it up as an example of what happened, and how Sundren as a setting presently does not foster the appropriate environment for it. This is me not only taking account of circumstances, but also acknowledging the server vision Saulus and other staffers have for Sundren. And that was the only reason.