Bardic Inspiration

[Kitsunestume]

Simply put: What is the difference between NWN2 Bardic Inspiration, and the P&P Inspiration variants of Bardic Music?
Is there a difference?

I'm somewhat at a loss as to how to approach then from an RP standpoint, and it always seems somewhat absurd if one does This Sort of thing without the Subsonics feat [Complete Adventuerer/ Song and Silence].

Any discussion is welcome,
Cheers,
Kit

[DM Punchinello]

what would rocky be without his music and montage!

[Thief Of Navarre]

I'd say there isnt a difference. Try not to overthink them too much but as a rule I'd say the same as bardic music the recipient must have intelligence and must not be deafened; likewise the bard cannot be silenced to perform it (unless he has sufficient ranks in mimicry lol). Otherwise RP it however you want!

[Doubtful]

I'm with TON on this, try not to over think it.

It's a shame that the Inspire Competence can't be shifted to be a bit more in line with the PnP varient - chiefly the fact that you shouldn't be able to inspire competence in yourself, just your allies.

As for how it works, remember the important (su)(sp) tags. Trying to justify it according to real world mechanics will be about as successful as all the idiots out there who try and give real world explanations to HiPS (It's got an su tag you f******g idiots, SUPER cocking NATURAL. Like magic and spells and ghost and demons. Trying to explain it away with real world actions limiting characters because you cannot grasp the idea that maybe it's a little more than running behind something really really quickly just shows what an absolute twat you are.)*

It could be a charismatic aura thing, maybe some magical hyper-NLP, maybe he can channel the power of The Secret and Cosmic Ordering into those around him, maybe he's got contagious confidence, perhaps he terrifies people into doing things better out of fear of failure (Might work well for a Bard/Blackguard or Bard/Frenzied Beserker) could be a dozen things plus a load more. Chances are, with those Spell Like Ability and Supernatural Ability tags it isn't going to be something that's easy to fit into realspace™



*Not directed at anyone here, but a personal and longstanding bugbear. I also appear to be full of rage today.

[Thief Of Navarre]

What Azulfae writ on HiPs pretty much summed it up for me. Dont try and comprehend supernatural abilities; spoils the mysticism

I think Doubtful accidentally took Extra Rage as a bonus feat btw.

[Peridan]

As for how it works, remember the important (su)(sp) tags. Trying to justify it according to real world mechanics will be about as successful as all the idiots out there who try and give real world explanations to HiPS (It's got an su tag you f******g idiots, SUPER cocking NATURAL. Like magic and spells and ghost and demons. Trying to explain it away with real world actions limiting characters because you cannot grasp the idea that maybe it's a little more than running behind something really really quickly just shows what an absolute twat you are.)*

[DM Punchinello]

I get it now - the gentleman's "horns of satan"

That explains the undercurrent of rage

[Chiangtao]

I think the key word is inspiration. Folks often interchange it with song. It is preposterous to think a bard would sing continuously to keep an inspiration active.

And regarding hips there are plenty of ways it should be regulated but isn't by game mechanics. Supernatural yes but shadow dancers still need shadow to use it. I see the most absurd explanations when challenged on that front.

[FoogooFish]

The description of inspirations says that allies are inspired by "the presence" of the bard - not the voice of the bard. I concur with Chingtao - it's rather unreasonable to think a bard is singing all the time when an inspiration is active. The changing from one inspiration to another and the default animation associated with it (an OOC mechanic) shouldn't be considered any different from someone using CE or ICE - the inspiration is a non-tangible thing.

[Cornuto]

Inspire Competence (Su)
A bard of 3rd level or higher with 6 or more ranks in a Perform skill can use his music or poetics to help an ally succeed at a task. The ally must be within 30 feet and able to see and hear the bard. The bard must also be able to see the ally.

The ally gets a +2 competence bonus on skill checks with a particular skill as long as he or she continues to hear the bard’s music. Certain uses of this ability are infeasible. The effect lasts as long as the bard concentrates, up to a maximum of 2 minutes. A bard can’t inspire competence in himself. Inspire competence is a mind-affecting ability.

Certainly sounds like they're actively making music the whole time to me.

[Kirin]

Certainly sounds like they're actively making music the whole time to me.

Supernatural. The music could just as easily keep playing in the back of the targets mind after the bard stops strumming his/her lute. All the bard has to do is maintain concentration.

(Which would be kind of awful if the bard was a jerk. Imagine the most annoying song ever forcibly stuck in your head...playing over and over... )

Anyway, this kind of thing has always been a DM call in PnP. There's a such thing as reading too much into the text of the rule.

[Chiangtao]

I would buy that the initial inspiration use requires song poetry or visible performance. But it is ridiculous to think the bard would continue non stop to have it active wouldn't it?

[FoogooFish]

Cornuto, you're also posting something from PnP that says it lasts a max of two minutes versus NWN2's version that is continuous. Apples and oranges here.

[Doubtful]

PnP is pretty clear on exactly what the bard/inspired person is doing

The ally must be within 30 feet and able to see and hear the bard. The bard must also be able to see the ally.

The ally gets a +2 competence bonus on skill checks with a particular skill as long as he or she continues to hear the bard’s music

To be affected, an ally must be able to hear the bard sing. The effect lasts for as long as the ally hears the bard sing and for 5 rounds thereafter.

They are all a type of bardic music, so that means they fall under

While these abilities fall under the category of bardic music and the descriptions discuss singing or playing instruments, they can all be activated by reciting poetry, chanting, singing lyrical songs, singing melodies, whistling, playing an instrument, or playing an instrument in combination with some spoken performance.

That means you'd be expecting the bard to be actively doing something to promote whatever action he's trying to inspire. The exact action can vary from bard to bard, personally I'd expand on the list given above to include a variety of motivational pointers.

Online I personally don't mind bards getting a lot more flexibility in how their inspirations are handled, we don't have all of the classes and feats that PnP has to offer so we need to give flexibility in other ways. On Sundren I'd have no problems with someone playing a bard as a Sergent-major style hardass whose 'inspirations' come from shouting, pointing out flaws, getting red in the face and generally suggesting only steers and queers come from Waterdeep and that he can't see any horns on you, whereas in PnP I'd probably turn that idea down and suggest they play a Marshall.

As Foogoo says, NWN2s descriptions simply mention that Inspirations are caused by the presence of the bard, though I'll always prefer to see people giving them some activity rather than something that simply 'happens' around them.

I'd also still love to see Inspire Competence given the PnP treatment, allies. Not self.

[Standur]

Personally I'd expand on the list given above to include a variety of motivational pointers.

I like for my bards to have their motivational pointers above the waist.