PvP my views and such...

[Skro]

IF you play a Drow, expect to be killed and attacked a lot. I think it's not an unreasonable expectation. People giving them the benefit of the doubt and then going out and shooting random goblins in the head without talking to them first doesn't make any sense.

Don't shuffle NPCs with PCs.
A (NPC) goblin attacks us on the sight on organized groups (A.K.A. Spawn) and gives you a good reason to attack him without mercy. But If one goblin says me "Don't kill me, I surrender" then I let him leave (Im talking as a Good-Align-User), because in some case, that goblin (if they don't do a bluff check) don't want to do that thing, so, I give him a second chance to live. Add this to the consideration of the NPC is just a NPC and don't have a defined personality, just attack or stands there.

I give you the reason of "Drow are evil race". But in Faerun always exists the contradictions, you know, marketing issues :P.

A (PLAYER) drow not depending of the alignment, are drow and have some ways to act independently of the alignment, like doing adult things with another drow (Female/Female, Male/Female, Orgies), is the way of the race (SiNafay's and Iara's quote :P).
But the good drows don't choose the way of political life of the other drows, that is the reason who they escapes from Lolth.
So, this Witch-Hunting (like my character says), makes hurt his heart because she is not another evil drow with corrupted soul.
The PC's have personality, so, like you or not, you must RP with them and try to understand them.

[Pycroft]

Haroshia

Haroshia makes the point i was going to make. I don't see anyone RPing and trying to talk to a goblin or an orc. We charge off and slay the beast. IF we consider drow the same, I agree that it seems wierd that people sit around and talk and befriend the drow. Unless there is an extreme RP reason (And one of my characters actually has one), then sitting around and talking to a drow in a group is comparable to a group hanging out and talking to a gnoll (Especially if a character is new to an area and didn't have a chance to meet - if it's appropriate - the drow). I agree that the only reason we don't attack drow on site is that we know OOC that they are players and have to RP with them.

Not sure if that's what everyone likes, or what is intended (I can't really comment because i do not play a drow), but that's what happens.

Ewan Rice (Jasper)
Marco Modrzecki

[Haroshia]

Also to clarify, I am NOT condoning breaking the PVP rules. They're there for a reason. Sending a drow a tell of "I'm gonna kill you" before you jump them should still happen.

[CrimsonTears]

I pretty much agree with Har's points.

I mean, c'mon... if on the next update we get access to an underdark area full of drow NPCs who attack on sight... are people going to sit and try to talk to each one of them or treat them like -all- drow should be treated, on a KOS basis?

Drow are one of Faer?n's boogiemen. People are raised to fear and hate them even in places where you'll never see one. And one (very common, especially in groups) reaction to fear is blind hatred.

People may say Sundren is "different" and people are more open-minded. Well, I think they -were- more open-minded, but after the recent happenings with people found gutted, drow attacks and everything else, I see all the commoners feeling betrayed for giving the benefit of doubt once... and revoking that benefit.

[GodBeastX]

Giving a tell to them before you attack is fine, I should have put that in the rules. The actions before attacks is to kill the "Ganking".

People who play PVP MMOs know what ganking is. WoW for example, you'd be levelling up... POW! A rogue ambushes you while you're fighting and turtle and 2 secodns you are dead. They laugh, mount up, and ride off. This is pretty lame.

It also gives time for Player to catch up with the PC. A PC character might see, notice, etc, before the PC might. You can say "I ran in fair and square and killed him before he was ready!" Generally the character, if not controlled by Bob, would have been ready. So it's to help balance that too. Even if you give an OOC tell, it gives time for people to mentally process things and swallow them and understand why they are about to get jumped.

I said it once and I'll say it again. Drow were meant to be attacked. We set them up a place away from everyone else as their "Sanctuary" so they don't have to be attacked 100% of the time. Haroshia has it right. It's a Drow, it's not a Human. No Drow should ever come up to me and say "It's not fair people hate me IC'ly!" because I would go "Why? You are a Drow." It'd be like playing a lich and asking why everyone is turning and paladinating me.

[Haroshia]

Paladinating is now added to my Lexicon of awesome words...

[TheFarsight]

As one of the Drow players.
Go ahead kill me. I do not mind. I am a Drow, evil as a drow should be. I will slaughter adventurers, steal your lettuce, and burn down your clothing stores. Why.. Because I am Drow. I fully expect to be killed, and never have complained of such. Sure send a tell, thats great. But.. Do not just send a tell, then when you see me. Click my red character and attack. This is not Diablo, this is an RP server. Set me hostile, sure, Hostile is purely an OOC thing for game mechanics and you should not RP that you know someone has set you hostile. Then, RP your character. RP that you are going to attack me, question me, threaten me, yell at me, then attack. Not just, point and shoot.

As I said, and I know this for a fact. Me and Fury, do not care about the dieing. We love the rp this has sparked. The only thing we have a problem with, is no RP before PVP. We will always RP, trust me. We are two drow walking around. We rp amoungst our-selfs all the time, and when we see some one, we keep rping, and then rp with them. We have had the occasion where we are typing out RP as we come across some one and BAM. They start attacking. No RP, Nothing even typed. Just attack. This is poor people. Role play it. This server is that after all. And I know everyone is capable of role play.

So go ahead, Role play! Drow are evil, and we are here to set fear in the young'uns and terrorize all. We are here, to add another element of RP fun ^.^

But the tells is a good idea. I try to do it as much as I can.

[Zoberraz]

By the way, guys, my position on this wasn't to just see a drow and kill him or her on sight. For example, if Maia spies Ildoith moving in the Viridale Forest, she is not going to attack Ildoith in sight just on account of her being a drow because the fact is Maia has no idea if that drow is good or evil and what her disposition is. Maia is going to give a try about determining if that drow elf is an enemy or not.

Yesterday, my first encounter with Fury went this way:
Fury's Drow fights critters over a bridge in the Viridale Forest and then walks past Maia. Maia twists around, says "You!" and turns to him, deciding to switch from her bow to her swords because she was in close quarters. My next action was going to have her ask the drow elf Fury played "What business does a drow have in the Viridale?"

Sure, this could have lead to combat but before I really even had the chance to converse, the other guy drank in invisibility potion. Maia gave a start, used a listen check once he was concealed (I did not attack while he was between drinking the potion and actually turning invisible) and tried firing one arrow in his general direction - which missed.

From there Maia just went "Tch," and realized that because she had hesitated, a person whom likely was one of the murderers she'd heard about striking at elves and others in the forest slipped through her fingers and the armor design of House Olis'Inth'Vargh - which she had seen before on the drow elves attacking at the Festival hosted at the Sunderer's Gate - was rather obvious.

Hence Maia's reaction of "Damn, if I wouldn't have had hesitated and took him down while I had the chance. Now, he's free and maybe he'll kill another person because I let him go free." At which point I messaged Fury about Maia not taking the pain to parley next time she would see him and instead going hostile on him immediately - and started getting naysayed by him which lead to part of this whole debacle (I might have very well given a tell of impending attack then, but meh).

...

Another thing I'd like to mention is that not all roleplay needs to be spoken. If I go and warn someone that Maia is around and intends to take them down, Maia still has to do the deed. In the forest, Maia plays the role of the archtypical elven sentinel whom strikes from hiding with arrows and makes an effort so that she is not going to be noticed by others most of the time - as is the trend with guerilla fighters.

If that is my role, where would I make a mistake in stalking down a target if I don't actually speak to the guy, whom I would know by now is my enemy and that he would come to know the same? Of course, I'd normally have no qualm in making emotes of Maia creeping around and following the drow dude... staying at bow range sort of crimps that, though... so the real only alternative then would be to send the other person a tell to notify them they are being stalked for that intent.

Also, I totally get what GBX is saying about being mentally prepared, drow always expecting attack and such.

[TheFarsight]

Thats all debateable.. with the first encounter. But oh well.

As for KOS, fine. But RP it in some manner is my point. Stealth, knocking arrows, watching, creeping what ever. As long as you do not just show up and start attacking with literally no rp of anykind. We don't do it to you guys. Thats just horrid. And, as said before. We always give a chance to let you live. Plus, we do not kill everyone. We let go many people. You just don't hear about it because they did not die, so why talk about it? =P

[Eternal Serf]

Thanks everyone for their responses, I appreciate the input greatly, though I may still be confused about how to approach the hunting drow I think I have a better grasp on what will be expected of my PC while I explore the world.

I'm looking forward to the faction scripts and such. It should add a lot of fun to this debate.