Rogue/Assassin Weapons

[Thief Of Navarre]

There is no real benefits to using a dagger if you are a medium sized creature such as human or elf. But if you are a small sized creature such as a halfling, i imagine youll suffer less penalties for dual wielding them as opppose to using a rapier or shortsword. That being said, why do people use hammers and mace weapons other than rp flavor? They seem to be inferior to their sword/axe counter part on every way.

Damage type.

[thaelis]

I don't really see the need to buff daggers all that much, Sundren has some pretty bad ass ones already. It'd be nice just to see more magical daggers.

Its just that i read a lot of FR novels and pretty much 90% of rogues seem to use dagger, especially when attacking from hiding (aka Sneak attack). The whole "its easy to conceal" thing doesn't really wash for me either. I hate to use Artemis Entreri as an example, but he's probably the most memorable fantasy rogue..wearing a longsword on one hip and a dagger on the other. I always think to myself why the hell does he backstab with his dagger?

I'm just the kind of person who makes tons of house rules to make D&d fit the lore more closely. Oh, and to give my players a headache

[Thief Of Navarre]

Its just that i read a lot of FR novels and pretty much 90% of rogues seem to use dagger, especially when attacking from hiding (aka Sneak attack). The whole "its easy to conceal" thing doesn't really wash for me either. I hate to use Artemis Entreri as an example, but he's probably the most memorable fantasy rogue..wearing a longsword on one hip and a dagger on the other. I always think to myself why the hell does he backstab with his dagger?

I'm just the kind of person who makes tons of house rules to make D&d fit the lore more closely. Oh, and to give my players a headache

Imo as a martial artist I can see that using a knife is a lot quicker than swinging a sword. A knife I'd probably die by, a sword I could quite easily disarm and break my opponent unless he was very highly trained (not a rogue for instance). Fighters train with martial weaponry because they are warriors and soldiers... rogues...well arnt.

[Doubtful]

I always think to myself why the hell does he backstab with his dagger?

I'd suggest it's partially concealment - It's much easier to hide with 10-20cm of dagger blade than it is with 115cm ish of longsword blade or 70 odd cm of shortsword.

Then there's the actual physics of it - Grabbing someone from behind and jabbing in a blade a few times or cutting a throat is a lot easier if it's a short blade than if it's long blade.

Lastly - The Rule of Cool. Daggers have that funkeh factor for rogues and close quarter fighters, be it Leon, Rambo, Brighton Rock, that gut churning bit of Saving Private Ryan and hundreds of other films and books. Knives have that 'Personal with Personality' factor that swords just don't have.

That said, I'd like to see a few more roguish weapons - Saps, blackjacks, truncheons. Maybe a load of coins or a pool ball in a sock.

I guess they needed a break from being the most tumultuous feudal body to ever exist. ... . It's like skyrim in real life, but on drugs and with no quicksave feature.

The HRE was crazy. Plain and simple.

It wasn't the HRE, crazy though it was, that I meant.

Mensur fencing is what I was referring to - Honestly, crazy shit. The idea really is just to give each other cool scars that chick'll dig while wearing outlandish costumes (though not quite as outlandish as some from the HRE I'll admit)

[Kitsunestume]

why the hell does he backstab with his dagger?

It's vampiric?
That alone is an awesome excuse.

Cheers,
Kit

[Thief Of Navarre]

It's vampiric?
That alone is an awesome excuse.

Cheers,
Kit

Be careful you dont hit any spectral undead though...nasty.

I'd love to see a blackjack as a rogue weapon ~ DC chance to stun on a successful sneak attack perhaps?

[Twisted-Indoctrine]

... wouldn't that just be using a club and setting your damage type to subdual?

And yes, I know that a black jack isn't a club, but the effects are ultimately the same, dude gets knocked unconscious, Garrett picks him up and stuff him in a corner after shooting a torch with a water arrow to make it dark enough that no one will spot and continues robbing the noble house blind.

[Thief Of Navarre]

... wouldn't that just be using a club and setting your damage type to subdual?

And yes, I know that a black jack isn't a club, but the effects are ultimately the same, dude gets knocked unconscious, Garrett picks him up and stuff him in a corner after shooting a torch with a water arrow to make it dark enough that no one will spot and continues robbing the noble house blind.

Lol'd so hard at the reference. I didnt even think of the thief games at the time yet now have the sudden urge to reinstall them.

[Twisted-Indoctrine]

Consider trying Dark Messiah of might and magic if you're looking for something more recent with the old Thief game style feel to them. If you follow the thief level progression it plays rather similarly in many respects... and if you play a warrior or mage you're in for some of the most brutally satisfying combat in a first person game ever, period.

Also the game's littered with references to Thief and you can tell the developers grew up with it.