Donation time limits

[FoogooFish]

I am a staunch opponent of the donation boxes. What's more lame than a level 20 who is the lowest possible rank in his/her faction? A level 20 who has done eff-all nothing for the faction except grind grind grind gold to buy buy buy rank and suddenly thinks that he/she can start using that rank for an IC advantage.

There are simply too many instances of characters who are not active in the faction whatsoever running amok with ranks 3 and 4 and acting like they should be treated with respect. Characters who are genuinely active and contributing to their faction WILL be rewarded by the DMs. It might take a while, but earning that rank is a lot better for the server RP flow than buying it.

[Satoshi]

Yeah. Depending on how active the DM team is at any given time, there's enough DM events paired with flag running (which is tedious, but still more pro-active than donations) that I don't really see why it would be necessary to donate at all.

[Catastrophe]

Yes, I would be heavily opposed to getting rep just by leveling, considering there are some out there who just grind grind grind.

[roguethree]

Characters who are genuinely active and contributing to their faction WILL be rewarded by the DMs.

This isn't necessarily true. For example,

for 2 months, once every week, last year, Presea and Faucon and a small band of Triad Initiates went out and did quests for the faction. For most of the events we didn't get any extra rep . . .

Also . . .

don't feel bad about asking us DM's for it.

Maybe I'm in the minority, but I don't really feel comfortable asking a DM for a reward, and reputation isn't such a hard thing to remember that DMs should have to be consistently reminded to reward it to PCs. DMs don't have to be reminded about XP, items, or gold, and faction quests are promoted over other quests; seems like rep reward should be automatic.

Suggestion: double the value of rep gain from flags.

[Catastrophe]

I understand about being uncomfortable, but you have to remember, we dm's are human like the rest of you. Sometimes we forget things, like giving out rep.

Ask us. We won't bite.

[Biohazard89]

The getting rep just for leveling is the dumbest idea ive ever heard sorry to say that. BUT another VERY serious problem on the server frankly that its too easy to get gold. Gold is worth less then junk in Sundren right now so donations should really be cut out of the the picture.

A suggestion on how to get DM rep gain would be to make a Small resume of what the given characters did for that faction on that day and at what time etc, in the Roleplay forum for instance. make a little story out of it possibly with a screenie or two.

Just my two cents.

[Doubtful]

Perhaps just make it so you get some just for leveling. I mean whats more lame than a level 20 who is still the lowest possible rank in his faction.

Why would being high-level mean high-rank?

If your character has contributed nothing to the faction then you should be the lowest possible rank, regardless of level. Likewise a low level character who is consistently active within the faction furthering the groups aims and making a positive impact should be able to gain rank quickly.

A character should still be able to buy a commission, but it should be handled through a DM and result in an event, not just chucking your bloodmoney in a box. Buying a commission should also be a one-time thing and only to a maximum of mid rank officer.

Suggestion: double the value of rep gain from flags.

If the donation boxes are removed then a re-evaluation of the rep rewards for turning in banners would be in order. Before the boxes went in the rep required was considerably lower, we'll need to head back toward the original rep scale.

As for the other points, you're right - You shouldn't need to constantly ask for rewards, any relevant Exp, Items and Rep should be forthcoming at the end of an event. However sometimes the DMs do forget things and there's no shame in asking. We're not exactly going to flip out and punish people for a polite request!

A suggestion on how to get DM rep gain would be to make a Small resume of what the given characters did for that faction on that day and at what time etc, in the Roleplay forum for instance. make a little story out of it possibly with a screenie or two.

Forum activity should be the second best way to get rep, behind IG activity. Action reports, rumours, RP posts and so on are a great way of letting the DM team and everyone else know what your character is up to! It allows us to hear about things that happen when we're not on the server and lets the game-world as a whole hear about your adventures. Reports to your faction superiors are always appreciated and, as in business, pro-active and diligent faction members should find themselves rewarded!

With forum stuff you can always have a friendly chat with a DM and see if there's any outstanding rep!



High rank, and the associated respect, responsibility and items are things that should be earned through roleplay and getting involved, they shouldn't be there as rewards for something as mechanical and irrelevant as grinding.

[FoogooFish]

I've actually suggested in the staff forums that the amounts given by banners be upped if donations are removed, so I'm completely supportive of that idea.

And yes, while I'm sure that DMs have inadvertently skipped giving faction after events, the example posted was from last year from even before I joined the server. I feel that the DMs, as a whole, have gotten a lot better since then in handing out faction points, although I will agree that asking/reminding for a reward can be intimidating.

Perhaps there should be a simple DM checklist for events:

Does this PC deserve XP?
Does this PC deserve a faction increase or decrease?
Does this PC deserve any alignment changes?
Does this PC deserve any gold?
Does this PC deserve an item?

Write it on a sticky note, post it by the monitor, and pretty soon it'll become habit to answer all the questions post-events.

[BedlamX]

Look...I'm still alive :P

I was with that little "Team Dain" group and can back up the lack of rep rewards for doing purely faction-related things. It was very cool of rogue to set up events as a player and made the time on line much more fun. But, frankly, my character got more rep for banner runs in a day (basically grinding), gold donations (more grinding), and some from Dain vouching (but with 3-6 of us in the group, that only went so far with teh vouch limits).

Rep was always kind of a joke. The super powerbuilds that could solo anything got the gold to buy rep and the banners as often as possible. I know of at least two characters that were at teh top of their faction rep-wise that did almost zero RP (and took advantage of the rep over those with lower rep when it suited them). I know I grinded to higher rep levels with a couple of my toons for the gear. But I never had any of my toons "pull rank" on someone with lower. It was all a numbers game for faction gear.

Sorry for the post since I only play every couple of weeks any more. This was just always one of my pet gripes, so thought I would share.

[ManUtd4Ever]

It appears those who believe one way or the other do so with conviction. I support both sides.

A character should still be able to buy a commission, but it should be handled through a DM and result in an event, not just chucking your bloodmoney in a box. Buying a commission should also be a one-time thing and only to a maximum of mid rank officer.

a) Because someone didn’t read it in a forum post or a DM didn’t witness it doesn’t mean a Character did not do great and wonderful things for their faction. It is for this reason I support the ability to buy reputation points. Albeit at a steep cost. There is little subjectivity in this very mechanical approach. 75,000 stags equates to 2,500 reputation points. The math is fairly simple: 300,000 stags for 10k rep (high ranking member of a faction), or 450,000 stags for 15k rep (Directorship). How a character gets that kind of money varies, but it usually centers on “gold per kill” or loot. I’ve been playing on Sundren since April 2009. In all that time I have never generated 300k amongst all my characters combined. Gold may be cheap, but it isn’t that cheap.

…a low level character who is consistently active within the faction furthering the groups aims and making a positive impact should be able to gain rank quickly.

b) Then there are forum posts or DM events, which are another way to get reputation. There is a lot of subjectivity with this approach as it’s qualitative in nature. I have only been in a handful of DM events. Each one was great… even those that were done on the cuff. Nevertheless, the amount of XP and Reputation points I received varied from each DM. This is only human nature. So, even though I found each DM to be consistent with what they gave from event to event, the reputation or experience given will never be as consistent and equal across the board like it is when you buy it. Here’s the kicker though… I believe in DM subjectivity. The DMs are here to make the entire server better, and sometimes that comes at an individual price. My personal example with reputation is as follows:

Cesar Del Sol is the first character I took to 20th level. I invested a lot of time in him. He has approximately 6300 reputation points. Every one of those points gained through capturing a flag or DM event. No points purchased. At one time he was the most senior member of his faction actively playing on the server. One day a DM gave another member of my faction the directorship. This meant increasing his reputation points from on or about 3,500 to 15,000 points. This character was more junior to Cesar in both reputation and character levels at the time. At first I was upset that Cesar was passed over. But that lasted for about 30 seconds because I knew his role play is/was far superior to mine. He spent time trying to make the faction better. He deserved to be promoted. He deserved to be the faction’s director. Accordingly, to me the DM’s actions were the right ones.

I would like to think there is sufficient room for both approaches. Perhaps not without some modifications… but both could exist in harmony.