A different disguise thread

[Gorri]

I was there too Gorri, and the reason for it was because they had seen you in the same clothing before and you used the disguise kit right in front of everyone.

I got hacked before I used the kit... or at least the screenshot says so :P. Anyways that incident was the exception and not the norm. Had a pretty good RP /Disguise / Interrogation encounter recently with some of the same people that I feel could have easily and justifiably turned to bloodshed.

IMO disguise has a lot of grey areas and fine lines to walk and DM/Dev insights help a lot.

[roguethree]

If you don't have any training in applying a disguise, would you really be trying to go through populated areas relying on one? If I'm bad at swimming and I can either swim the ford or use a bridge, I'm using the bridge. If I'm bad at disguising, then I'm going to find another means to get from A to B.

[OnyxTigress]

If you don't have any training in applying a disguise, would you really be trying to go through populated areas relying on one? If I'm bad at swimming and I can either swim the ford or use a bridge, I'm using the bridge. If I'm bad at disguising, then I'm going to find another means to get from A to B.

That is very true, but hard to technically due in game. With some places, you have to actually go through public areas to get from one area to the next.

For example, if you need to get to the Cold Climb, you gotta go through Aquor. In the real world, you'd probably just go around the town to get there. But technically that can't be done.

[Kitsunestume]

Well, you could always use the tunnels Beneath Aquor, but there is no other way back, short of raiding the vampire compound and using their portal.

[OnyxTigress]

You could, sure. But if you're not a high enough level to be able to take on the enemies that are there and not aligned with the faction, then it's a pretty hard thing to do to get through the Cartel caves.

[Jai_V]

You could argue a million reasons why or why not the aspect of Disguise is wonky, and it wouldn't make a difference. In game, it's a viable skill that one can invest in, or not, and it plays out however it plays out.

Personally, I think any hiccups involved this (and most other things) could be handled (in game) if everyone would just stop thinking the meta aspect is evil and took a one minute "reactionary gap" before plinking the offending wandering character with arrows, fireballs, and less wholesome detritus. This goes for all characters. Considering that most of the spatial aspects in the game are relative, I don't think that's unreasonable, but YMMV.

/shrug

[Torgar]

I've always been curious on the opinion the staff holds in regard to characters who's spot and/or sense motive is high enough that they beat the maximum the disguising character can make even rolling a 20, without rolling.

Example: Joe dirt uses alter self with a 10 charisma and no ranks, and therefore has a potential maximum of (20+spell (10)), or in this case, he can at most, get a 30. If John's spot or sense motive is currently 30, so that the lowest he could achieve on a roll of 1 is 31, does that mean he automatically can tell something is off, without the need to roll it out? A sort of gut feeling that says something about the person is obviously false from the start?

I've often wondered this, as I play a character who's spot score, the opposed skill to disguise, is high enough that only people who have invested good training into disguise could actually fool him. Since most who use disguise don't actually train in it, wouldn't that suggest that I can tell, within reasonable proximity to someone in disguise, that they are in fact in disguise? That I see some of their real hair under the wig, I see there's a difference in their skin tone under the make-up, or something of that sort?

I'm a good enough player to not abuse something like that and not just shout out "Hey, you there, stop being in disguise!". I just wanted some staff opinions on it, is all. I don 't really run into that many people in disguise, so I'm fine either way the staff rules, just figured I'd ask, since the thread was up anyways, and it was always in the back of my mind to ask.

[Lothoir]

How do you know how many ranks a character has in a skill, and how do they know how many ranks your character has in the skill?

Rolling is kind of necessary.

[Doubtful]

Lothior is spot on - As secure as you may be in your Spot stat, you can't be 100% sure what the targets stats are so use the UI to do a spot check.

Also remember the House Rule:

1 is an Auto-Fail

A natural 1 is an automatic fail for all dice rolls. This includes stat, save, and skill rolls.

In PnP, skill rolls don't follow this auto-fail rule. However, in PnP, you have DM's that can regulate dice rolls to apply appropriate modifiers and penalties. We don't want to create an environment where high level characters will ALWAYS spot low level ones, or ALWAYS remain hidden, or ALWAYS see through bluffs. This house rule is meant to compensate for the lack of modifiers and penalties that are usually applied to skill rolls in PnP.

Please note that natural 20's are not auto-success on skill rolls.

So - Roll.

[Lothoir]

I had thought the autofail rule was removed for being stupid, which is why it wasn't in the wiki anymore: http://www.sundren.org/wiki/index.php?title=Rules

That was actually my major point of contention with this thread. I had stopped arguing in that thread because I thought the house rule for autofails was removed, balancing Stealth to some small degree with the other skills.

[FoogooFish]

I'd definitely like some clarification in regards to the 'skills auto-fail on ones' rule as well. I've never played with it in effect, and until recently, no players or DMs have sought to use it. Not-Kasso recently ran an event where he said this was the case, though, and I have adhered to it since then.

For the record, I am staunchly opposed to skills failing on ones.

[Shedboy]

my understanding was that with skills you just have to beat the DC.

The dm can set the dc and apply mods either way. A dm could say a roll of 1 is a bad luck mod and impinge a big negative (eg. -5) which may be enough to take you under (or not).

[Cornuto]

I had thought the autofail rule was removed for being stupid, which is why it wasn't in the wiki anymore: http://www.sundren.org/wiki/index.php?title=Rules

That was actually my major point of contention with this thread. I had stopped arguing in that thread because I thought the house rule for autofails was removed, balancing Stealth to some small degree with the other skills.

I think its dumb.

[Kaybrie]

Not-Kasso recently ran an event where he said this was the case, though, and I have adhered to it since then.

To clarify; I run my events using this rule regardless, because I prefer it that way for the sake of interest and humor. Whether or not it's a house rule to be used in common roleplay is anyone's (not my) guess, I don't see it anywhere, but I DM that way.

[GodBeastX]

I like the rule Helps lowbies I think. I'll allow it.