A Reminder

[Catastrophe]

Just a couple of reminders for people who are joining the server. Going with below average stats is fine, but just remember to roleplay them accordingly. If you're playing someone with a low intelligence score, we shouldn't see them able to speak perfectly and such. And if you have a low wisdom, I wouldn't want to see the character making the best decisions with things.

We will give reminders in game if we see these things, and if need be, we will adjust your stats if you keep going off track.

Another thing, sitting in AFK for long periods of time will get you booted if you're caught.

[Kaizen]

I think the reason for the lack of RPing certain negative stats is the fact that some of these stats are completely pushed to the side in events/in general.

For the most part, the stat attributes are only use reactively in events - ie, *roll strength check to break this door down* *roll will save to save yourself* *roll con to not die of alcohol poisoning* , never in a proactive manner.

Since I'm never good at wording my thoughts, I'll use an example:

I was at an event where an angry mob of peasants were causing some rabble.

An epic level Paladin/Warden of Wrath/Lesser Adjudicator with 30 charisma, and an epic level Heartwarder/Directeur of the CdG with 30 charisma roll up....

and the peasants act the same.

If President Barack Obama walked into an NRA meeting, everyone would stfu immediately by his sheer presence alone, and conduct themselves in the best image they could right quick.

30 Charisma, or any stat that reaches that high in proportions should be accounted for in any RP situation. Likewise, anything in the negatives should be reacted too/ played out, accordingly.

[Catastrophe]

I can't speak for every dm here, but I know that when I do things, I try to use stats accordingly.

With this example you put into play, this is the first time I've heard a complaint about it on the forums here. If there are problems going on, let us know.

[Taste Master]

If President Barack Obama walked into an NRA meeting, everyone would stfu immediately by his sheer presence alone, and conduct themselves in the best image they could right quick.

He'd probably get boo'd out of the room. Joking aside,

This thread is correct. When I made Regner Ironender, I wanted to have a huge Con. Part of doing that was making his Charisma a 6. The end result: he is a walking asshole with no social skills whatsoever. And it is awesome.

[Kaizen]

I wasn't aiming to point out a specific problem, or event, or DM - i just used the example that first came to mind to show a possible reason as to why there might be a current lull in Roleplaying stat characteristics.

RPing your own stats, and RPing reactively to others stats. Shit, I'm guilty of it, 30 Charisma is a pretty powerful personal presence, and my PCs still lol@Cirion. So i'm guilty of ignoring stat RP, but i'll try and clean that up.

[Catastrophe]

The end result: he is a walking asshole with no social skills whatsoever. And it is awesome.

I enjoy the sleaziness of Regner. True story.

[Starrizer]

Now if I may interrupt this quickly.. - From wiki of course

Charisma (meaning "gift," "of/from/favored by God/the divine") is a trait found in individuals whose personalities are characterized by a powerful charm and magnetism (attractiveness). and markedly superior capabilities of interpersonal communication and persuasion. One who is charismatic is said to be capable of using their personal being, rather than just speech or logic alone, to influence others in a personal and direct manner, and effectively communicate an argument or concept to them. It is thus a subjective rather than an objective judgment about such persons and falls into the domain of the irrational rather than rational responses.

Charisma doesn't effect how well you speak with one, but it does make you look charming in a phsyical manner.
"markedly superior capabilities of interpersonal communication and persuasion. One who is charismatic is said to be capable of using their personal being, rather than just speech or logic alone, to influence others in a personal and direct manner, and effectively communicate an argument or concept to them."

I.E - Using Sevian - 8 Charisma (And in examine you see average :P ) and 14 intellect, with 12 Diplomacy. So therefore - I am perfectly capable of being above average smart and above average Diplomatic. I can persuade with words , but just not as easily with looks.

Just pointing out this because I don't want some people having the idea that Charisma decideds if your Nice or Mean. Charisma effects your looks, not your social skills.

However - If your diplomacy is low - you probly don't know how to speak with others.
If your Intellect is low but high diplomacy - You don't have to be smart to be diplomatic. You just have to know how to talk to someone :P However, also remember it is in fact a game, so don't get TO detailed and then start contradicting the game like "Its not real enough guyz!"

[Kaizen]

Charisma =/= looks. Not always.

And yes, Charisma does affect your social skills. It's why Charisma modifier adds to your bluff/intimidate/diplomacy.

An orc with 16 charisma might not be the prettiest thing, he/she might just be that fearsome/have such a presence to warrant some extra attention.

Or, that eighty year old Cleric of Illmater with no left eye and a jagged scar down his face might have a high charisma, by sheer force of will and divine awesomness alone.

[Doubtful]

Just pointing out this because I don't want some people having the idea that Charisma decideds if your Nice or Mean. Charisma effects your looks, not your social skills.

Incorrect, in D&D at least.

Charisma has a direct effect on your social skills:

Charisma measures a character's force of personality, persuasiveness, personal magnetism, ability to lead, and physical attractiveness. This ability represents actual strength of personality, not merely how one is perceived by others in a social setting. Charisma is most important for paladins, favored souls, sorcerers, and bards. It is also important for clerics and blackguards, since it affects their ability to turn undead, and is important for spirit shamans and warlocks as it affect some of their spell DC's. Every creature has a Charisma score.
Charisma modifiers are applied to:

• Bluff, diplomacy, intimidate, perform, and use magic device checks. These are the skills that have Charisma as their key ability.

You can also have a low CHA score, and be stunningly pretty (the kind of person who's lovely to look at, but more than two minutes with makes you want to bite your own wrists open) or be butt ugly, and have a high CHA (Ron Jeremy).

As long as it balances out correctly, it's all good.

But, yes.. You can have low cha and high diplomacy skills, though of course you'll always be playing catchup to some degree, especially with a below average 8. That -1 mod is the engines way of saying 'something ain't right about you'.

Edit:

Kaizen beat me to it, and did it better. Damn you.

[Starrizer]

I said nice or mean as in a decided figure FYI.

Of course CHA effects your negotiation skills. If you are average or butt ugly, you probly are not gonna be much listened to unless you are diplomatic or intelligent.


I.E. (And I am going with a kid favorite here) - Hunchback of Notre Dame.
He was hideos, probly had a charisma score of 0 (-4) - BUT - He was very nice, kind, and if I am correct, also pretty smart.. Not to mention diplomatic..

So - Charisma just effects your social skill by shaping your outer appearence more then anything - it doesn't determine

Edit - Mmmk mmmk, I see what you are saying in the RP aspect. As long as your Charisma score balances out :P But my fact still remains >.> I will not be beaten down that easily!

[roguethree]

Kaizen's point is that unless you play a CHA-based class, the payoff for putting points in Charisma is nil. Same goes for WIS and INT, the other social stats. People haven't been punished for playing outside of their stats, and people don't respond to renown/nobility/charisma as they should. There's blame to go around.

For some, statistics are nothing but a means to qualify for feats and be combat effective, and they'd rather be left alone to role play as they see fit. Look at my 14-Charisma fighter to see what camp I'm in, but it's a tall order to change a culture built around building for success. To effect this change, we need more than DMs jerking people back in line: Our role play, as players, should reward others for their renown and charisma with appropriate reactions, and we should give credit to those with high intelligence scores by role playing our low intelligence scores appropriately.

And if your Charisma's low, you're not gorgeous but abrasive.

Charisma measures a character’s force of personality, persuasiveness, personal magnetism, ability to lead, and physical attractiveness.

And, not or. If you're above average in a category, then your ability score should be above average. You don't get to roll 10 strength and say, "I'm bad at hitting things but I can lift like a champion." You don't get to roll 10 Wisdom and say, "I'm bad at spotting things, but my perception and patience is incredible." So stop pretending your 8 Charisma is pretty but rude.

[Taste Master]

Just pointing out this because I don't want some people having the idea that Charisma decideds if your Nice or Mean. Charisma effects your looks, not your social skills.

Oh don't worry, he's an ugly bastard too. I covered all my bases.

[Machiavelli]

So - Charisma just effects your social skill by shaping your outer appearence more then anything - it doesn't determine

Once again, this isn't how it works. Two words; Winston Churchill. Think about it.

[Doubtful]

And Lincoln. Dude musta had some serious CHA attribute to counter that damn beard and all round gangliness.

[grant]

Charisma measures a character’s force of personality, persuasiveness, personal magnetism, ability to lead, and physical attractiveness.

This is why at one point in AD&D's distant past there was a failed (sadly) push for a 7th Stat. Comeliness. As said elsewhere: Ron Jeremy, Hitler, Ernest Borgnine (also the subject of an AD&D Charisma cartoon) any number of other politicians, royals and military leaders through history and popular actors are repeatedly cast as ugly thug/villain types in movies. All toads to look at but undeniably above average charisma. I do not know a lot of RP games but D&D is about the only one I know of to combine force of personality and appearance into one stat.