Priests vs. Clerics vs. Faithful

[Handsomeman]

I believe that "priest" is only a title. You call call yourself whatever you want, as long as you can convince everyone that you are, it doesnt matter what class you take. I used to tell people my paladin was an "adventurer". My fighter a "swordsman/mercenary". Though in your case, it would be hard to convince people that you're a "priest" when you can't perform miracles or blessings. It's like calling a person a "mage" when they can't shoot spells. People would expect them to do be able to do certain things. A bard may be able to pull this off if they read from "holy scriptures"(scroll) and casted a blessing on people. Then again, this is only my opinion.

[Silas North]

Going to more or less echo Jai here. You don't need to have levels in a divine class in order to be part of a clergy. Levels of these classes are often taken, but NOT a prereq in certain cases.

Those cases are usually quite easy to piece together too.

Mystra has wizards
Mask has rogues
Helm has fighters
Oghma has bards
etc etc etc

True, the lack of divine magic may be an issue, but would be no stranger than the cleric with 8 charisma and zero social skills. Sure he might be able to heal your wounds, but when trying to preach the good word of their god, they sound like a retard with stage fright. "Tyr is ..uh... holy and stuff."

[Dragor]

The way I view this is that the priesthood is the entire religeous organized structure of a religeon in all its facets if a religeon has wizards or fighters in its religious structure and they take part in choosing which direction the church goes...the I would consider them part of the priesthood

Before the Paladin was introduced Cleric's fulfilled the role of the divine crusader...the militant arm of a church this isnt really inclusive of people who hold cerimonies for a bunch of commoners

But I would say anyone with official connections to the church...anyone whose word carries the weight of that church behind it etc... can be called a priest

[GodBeastX]

Great posts!

Mine still stands Churches won't recognize a professed priest without divine ties. Although I'm more than happy to remove favored souls and clerics from the game <_< >_>

[Doubtful]

Although I'm more than happy to remove favored souls and clerics from the game

Please, please, please remove the favoured souls...

[Atmosphere]

Please, please, please remove the favoured souls...

+1

Personally, I'd like to see them treated the same way warlocks are. Restricted.

[Urithrand]

Second!

Okay third then...

[MelancholyWinds]

It'd make sense since.. I don't think a deity would choose like... A fucking armload of mortals in a small area to be his favored... Souls. You know, like his/her chosen ones.

But that's just me.

btw I love favored souls. Soooo easy to grind on, because it's quick. And I hate grinding.

[Lollercide]

I agree with Kasso and GodBeastX. I believe that if you RP being pious and knowledgeable enough in your religion to become a priest, and become a priest, then I believe you should take a few cleric levels to represent this.

[Vaelek]

Agreeing with several of the others here.

I've actually played the equivalent of a High Priest in Sundren, and I even had a few faithful ask me the same question.
Whether or not I thought it was fair for them to be called members of the clergy as weapon masters and the like.
My view on it then was that there are plenty of ways to serve a church and gather renown for yourself, be a figurehead for said faith and spread interest in it without shouldering the title of priest.
The ability to cast divine spells is in Sundren not just a show of ultimatepowerz, but a connection with the deity you're representing. A priest is a much bigger deal than just a guy in a dress that says a few words on a podium.
Even the lesser members of a church are expected to be able to perform certain tasks as they rise in station.
I wouldn't go to a temple and expect the local priest to be completely incompetent at healing my pet gerbil.
Clerics may be bringing the thunder, but I wouldn't shaft the less powerful devout who've given up their lives to servitude.

Only way I could see a character with no divine levels earning their way into priesthood would be retirement.
Send them off to a temple to serve fulltime, as that's both how clerics learn to develop their abilities in faith, and it's what non-adventurous priests do.

[Lothoir]

Please, please, please remove the favoured souls...

Remove Favored Souls, make all other primary spellcasters application only.

[Kaizen]

Remove Favored Souls, make all other primary spellcasters application only.

but favored souls are cool, no matter what anyone says. i have never rolled one, but the RP behind them just screams I AM ONE BAD MOTHERFUCKER.

Make them RPotM winner only, like Warlock.

[Catastrophe]

On board with restricting favored souls.

[MelancholyWinds]

The problem with that is things could become a bit stagnant when you slap on a lot of regulations on what classes you can play. Prestige classes, one or two base classes isn't bad, but when you keep adding them, it tends to be a turn off :P

[ManUtd4Ever]

Perhaps what Sypthe is describing is the role of a Deacon or Deaconesses in some religions. Depending on the religion, a deacon/deaconesses are members of the laity. As laity, a deacon or deaconesses assist Priests in the administration of blessings, call people to prayer, etc. So they have role in the church without being a Priest.

And since a deacon or deaconesses are not a Priest, they are not permitted to perform any blessings or sacraments (or as Handsomeman put it "perform miracles or blessings") on their own.

If someone wanted to become a Deacon or Deaconesses in their church while continuing their full time profession as something else... they would have to be clearly devoted and have considerable religious knowledge. All religions have their own customs and rituals that require some degree of study or practice to master.

Cheers!