Social Skill Counters - How about this?

[GodBeastX]

You're supposed to RP it out. This whole thing came up to begin with cuz every time I am on a character and I basically tell someone I'm going to tear their throats out, I roll intimidate.

People's very next question is "How do I counter this?"

Well, intimidate already has a rule. I was just wondering if people would find similar numbers useful for the other social skills. I want to see them in more use.

[GodBeastX]

Well, I guess if people are so much against it... *Rubs face*

but! Intimidate stays. Nobody is going to weasel out of that one Initimidate is one of the best ways to avoid PVP which is a good thing.

[Ithildin]

I have no problem with the skills against other players as long as they are used maturely. Your not going to persuade a paladin to kill another just because your roll was really high and his was low, a human who hates elves (or the other way around) likely wouldn't get seduced by one because of that hate no matter how high the roll is.

No matter how pretty your character might be or how good they are with words, there are some things that will never get pulled off. Inimidating someone right infront of guards with threats would fail rather quickly since they would likely move in to break it up.

Also, intimidate isn't always going to make someone back down either, it may make them hesitate but still if they have a really important goal or think they have someone backing them up they still might fight.

(example) A lone drow, or any other race, walks up to group of elves and started trying to intimidate one into doing something for him, the drow has a very high initmidate and the elf rolls poorly, now obviously alone the elf might make a run for it or something but with all those friends with him what does he really have to be scared of?

Really it all depends on the character, the only time I have used bluff was when I was obviously lying to someone who knew my character and wanted them to catch it, or when I ran into a giant guy who wasn't too bright and bluffed our way out of a fight with him.

[undeadsteak]

yeah, sometimes bluff can be annoying... Things like, this spoon is worth a million crowns is just plain stupid to bluff roll on. I'd rather ignore it..

[grumblecake]

I think diplomacy is the best bet against any social skill...

[OzmaDarkheart]

I agree with grumblecake. If the character has experience or talent in an area of social interaction, they should be much more likely to catch hints of others uses of them.

For instance, someone walks up and makes a Bluff chack on a paladin. Siad paladin has ranks in Diplomacy. If both parties agree, then a roll off between the two skills seems pretty appropriate.

Further, why not Bluff vs. Bluff? Or Diplomacy vs. Diplomacy? Sort of a "Takes one to know one" way of dealing with it. And it also rewards people for taking strictly RP skills.

[Sathayorn]

Diplomacy? come on...

"Perhaps if we were to find some common goal, we could work together to accomplish it"
"Really sir, we do wish to remain angry with you, please accept this as a token of our gratitude *makes a rude gesture*"

That sound a little over the top to you? Diplomacy to counter diplomacy? Reverse psychology exists, reverse diplomacy does as well, It's called stupidity.

Intimidate VS intimidate...

"I'm going to slit your throat, rip out your spine, and impale you with it"
"I'm not afraid, Cause I'll do the same to you!!!"

Ermmm... This now becomes hostility, making both parties look like bloodthirsty maniacs.

Bluff VS Diplomacy

"Honestly sir, I was doing a thurough medical inspection of your wife, there is nothing you should concern yourself with."
"Perhaps, we should discuss this over a cup of coffee, Hah! I knew you were a liar!"

Ermmm.... Yeah...

Bluff VS Bluff

"I didnt kill those two men *hides dagger behind back*"
"Look, theres a dragon!"

Hows that solve anything?

Diplomacy, while very useful, can't be used in most such cases... Be glad I did not use it as an example of how it cannot counter intimidate.

[CrimsonTears]

Have you ever considered that rolling a skill doesn't means using it to say something back? I really thought it couldn't be explained better than "it takes one to know one". Figures I was wrong

[Sathayorn]

If you roll a skill, you're using it, thats how skills work.

[CrimsonTears]

When you roll Spot you go "Alright, listen up! I'm now going to carefully look over all the area, you hear? YOU HEAR?!"?. Meanwhile the guy hiding goes "My my I'm so sneaky, I'm going to hide behind this rock so you all can't see me. Okay? You can't see me!"?.

Using a skill means using your knowledge on how to do something. Knowing how to intimidate someone also lets you recognize someone trying to intimidate you when they aren't all that. Being a good liar gives you hints on how to recognize a lie. Diplomacy isn't used in the way you describe at all, be it countered with whatever, so I won't bother going there.

In the case of Intimidate, which already has an official counter involving HD/level and all that, there's no need for it. But unless we get Sense Motive, using the skill to counter itself on the basis that "knowing how to do something you can recognize someone doing it" is a good compromise. It doesn't gives "freebies" to people who don't use skills points in those skills and it doesn't makes it based on levels or other things that could ignore cross-classing.

[Stratigo]

heh intimidate can be used silly too. One of the halfling barbarians tried to intimidate Jaggath. Jaggath is about 3 times her size. His sword is bigger than her. He could literally step on her. I got a good chuckles out of that one.

[undeadsteak]

Well, that doesnt really matter. The hins voice might be threatening. he might look angry. It doesn't always matter on size.

[Sathayorn]

Spot, is spotting something, Hide is the act of hiding, neither of which need dialogue, dont be stupid. And the examples I gave were very very crude I admit, but that is not my point.

As for the person who got intimidated by a halfling, I believe there is a -4 penalty for each size smaller you asre than the target.

[undeadsteak]

dont tell somones theyre being stupid.. :P

[Sathayorn]

dont tell somones theyre being stupid.. :P

I didn't tell them they were, I told them not to be, there is a subtle difference.