Joe Schmoe, statistics and what's average.

[Kaldaris]

Alright, I'm stepping in just to say--

In the end, your character can be lean and sexy with 20 strength, because this is a fantasy game and -you- want it that way. There's countless people that look attractive- but a quick investigation of their stats shows they only have 10 charisma.

[Sathayorn]

then, sunite females should watch their strength scores really, pumping it up and up past 16 to... wrong ammounts like 22 and such, but I doubt anyones ever going to say anything about it, does not seem worth anyones effort, and really, a pointless topic of discussion.

Don't let it bother you, best you can do to make sure sune doesnt have any hideous followers is not to make any.

[undeadsteak]

Yes, but once again, I don't think Sune would let her followers look like the above. I dont know about other gods though.

[Sathayorn]

In your defense, if a female character were to look like that, itd be atleast 16 strength.

However, saying all female fighters would look like that is a very bad way of looking at things, I once had a strength based fighter, male, 16 charisma and 12 strength. 14 dex, but he used a scimitar, and he was level 24... So its not all about stats.

[undeadsteak]

. . . We seriously dont need this in every thread, i cant even firggin look at my screen now.

[undeadsteak]

Yes, this thread is killing females with str now, but i got me excuse!

[Sathayorn]

Its not "over the top"!

For those of you who used "its a magical setting" Well.. Physical natural attributes would be actually visible, expecially with strength. 14 strength on a woman... harsh, 16... pretty vomit inducing, 18... eughh...

If you want to say "its a magical setting" remember, there is magic, and if bulls strength or a girdle of ogre power make you strong, thats how you dont look like an ogre, or, sorry, I should be politically correct, female bodybuilder.

Then again, this is only an opinion, taking realism into account.

[undeadsteak]

Heh.. Godbeast X has got it there. 16+ Strength and you're just a freaking beast for good or ill. Muscle weighs more than all other tissues save bone folks so.. Keep that in mind too. If your character is going to be high strength you may want to add two to ten pounds to every point above thirteen. Which is good to know for those nasty rotted planks or similar. >

Undeadsteak, 14-15 strength is gonna show. To what extent? Very defined borderline bulging biceps - washboard abs etc. If your thin? Your ripped and bulging being thin defines muscles and makes them obvious. A little on the chubby side hides muscles though.. hehe Shouldn't really be a problem for your concept, especially if she stays clothed most of the time.

Something to keep in mind is that alot of monsters you face have such insane strength scores for a reason and they are not supernatural.
Dragons weigh several tons or more once out of the wyrmling phase.

They're that strong because.. they're huge!

Same for ogres, trolls, and other giantkin; heck even giants themselves.
Wait now you're thinking probally right, what about orcs? The models I'd seen in single player weren't that big.

A smaller average orc(For 1st world countries like the USA height/weight in men as your comparison - 5'10" is average, this is 5'6") is 6'1" and weighs 210lb - that's not even chubby, that's the skinny runt who can barely get food. But they can top 7'6" and weigh up to around 495lb.(Oh right and before I forget this is Mountain Orcs the common ones not Grey Orcs, Orog, or the plane touched subrace Tanaraukk.) Now, for all that they get +4 strength. The average human male for example weighs if healthy and fit around 150lb and is around 5'8". Compare, 60 pounds heavier 3 inches taller. That's alot of muscle and a bit of bone. That's the difference between 10 strength and 14 strength in Joe Schmoe and Klug Doe.

But I want to play a Joe Schmoe character! Awesome, but think about this ok? This is thirty-two point buy that means your character will have 'exceptional' in every statistic but on or 'heroic' or even 'legendary' in several statistics from start.

What does that mean your character ask yourself?
They're the best of the best, the cream of the crop, the hope for their village(or terror eh heh). So why did you choose to become an adventurer?

Joe Schmoe has commoner class, player character classes are by definition the best the nutso good. The Rangers, the Navy Seals. Just by being the class.

NPC guards have warrior class(at least in PnP) and don't even get the fighter bonus feats. That's Joe Schmoe's best.

Being an average joe in outlook is awesome, but you'd never really be. So would this breed a touch of arrogance for some people? It sparks alot of questions, and although you may still have that farm boy's outlook... you're quickly becoming a 'hero' or 'villain'. That doesn't mean your character isn't human(feelings, outlooks, taught bigotry etc.) but they're not average.

Oh and before I forget - Bull's Strength and similar spells never show! That's supernatural!

Mmm, i dont know, it shouldn't effect Syl, cuz like I said, then every fighter in the reddest rose order or whatever and is a female is going to have bulging muscles and therefore be ugly, which would get them kicked out of the order.

[Gurkak]

Heheh, I think I scurred you all ^_^

GodBeastX killed the discussion.

[GodBeastX]

Heheh, I think I scurred you all ^_^

[Gurkak]

Heh.. Godbeast X has got it there. 16+ Strength and you're just a freaking beast for good or ill. Muscle weighs more than all other tissues save bone folks so.. Keep that in mind too. If your character is going to be high strength you may want to add two to ten pounds to every point above thirteen. Which is good to know for those nasty rotted planks or similar. >

Undeadsteak, 14-15 strength is gonna show. To what extent? Very defined borderline bulging biceps - washboard abs etc. If your thin? Your ripped and bulging being thin defines muscles and makes them obvious. A little on the chubby side hides muscles though.. hehe Shouldn't really be a problem for your concept, especially if she stays clothed most of the time.

Something to keep in mind is that alot of monsters you face have such insane strength scores for a reason and they are not supernatural.
Dragons weigh several tons or more once out of the wyrmling phase.

They're that strong because.. they're huge!

Same for ogres, trolls, and other giantkin; heck even giants themselves.
Wait now you're thinking probally right, what about orcs? The models I'd seen in single player weren't that big.

A smaller average orc(For 1st world countries like the USA height/weight in men as your comparison - 5'10" is average, this is 5'6") is 6'1" and weighs 210lb - that's not even chubby, that's the skinny runt who can barely get food. But they can top 7'6" and weigh up to around 495lb.(Oh right and before I forget this is Mountain Orcs the common ones not Grey Orcs, Orog, or the plane touched subrace Tanaraukk.) Now, for all that they get +4 strength. The average human male for example weighs if healthy and fit around 150lb and is around 5'8". Compare, 60 pounds heavier 3 inches taller. That's alot of muscle and a bit of bone. That's the difference between 10 strength and 14 strength in Joe Schmoe and Klug Doe.

But I want to play a Joe Schmoe character! Awesome, but think about this ok? This is thirty-two point buy that means your character will have 'exceptional' in every statistic but on or 'heroic' or even 'legendary' in several statistics from start.

What does that mean your character ask yourself?
They're the best of the best, the cream of the crop, the hope for their village(or terror eh heh). So why did you choose to become an adventurer?

Joe Schmoe has commoner class, player character classes are by definition the best the nutso good. The Rangers, the Navy Seals. Just by being the class.

NPC guards have warrior class(at least in PnP) and don't even get the fighter bonus feats. That's Joe Schmoe's best.

Being an average joe in outlook is awesome, but you'd never really be. So would this breed a touch of arrogance for some people? It sparks alot of questions, and although you may still have that farm boy's outlook... you're quickly becoming a 'hero' or 'villain'. That doesn't mean your character isn't human(feelings, outlooks, taught bigotry etc.) but they're not average.

Oh and before I forget - Bull's Strength and similar spells never show! That's supernatural!

[Clutch]

Muscle after so much is very noticeable. If you can lift so much wait, it has to be visibly somewhere unless you're fat. I'd say most the heroines in movies are above average, like 12, since they work out before the movie, but they aren't benching 300.

The idea is, you get mass with muscle. People aren't dainty with 18 str and 14 constitution.

Divine strength ? Please ? I beg you ! Anything better than those images

[Ethereal Edge]

I think one party describes the 'Average Joe' adventurer whereas another party describes the 'Average Joe' commoner. One has to remember that adventurers aren't intended to be 'normal' in statistics nor are those variations intended to be considered simply human. For an example, an elf with 18 strength might also have draconic lineage way back along his bloodline. Things like that rationalize the illogical nature of Dungeons and Dragons.

[valenator]

When I'm thinking of an "Average Joe," I'm not thinking of average stats, destined for mediocrity. An "Average Joe," to me, is a character with a background that doesn't include "Spawned from a demon," "born to fulfill a prophecy," "insert traumatic, horrendous childhood," etc. I think of Average Joe as a person with a basic, mundane first however many years of his life, who, for whatever reason, decided to take to adventuring. "Average Joe" isn't so average, I think, as he is balanced.

-V

[undeadsteak]

yup, and im going to pretend sune doesnt make her followers look like the above. O_o.