Die Lots. What do?

[Maevan2]

i found out the best way to survive is boost your ac as high as possible. use bark skin potions, expertise feats, heavy armor, and shields

I think many fighters often neglect their defensive feats. How many fighters take expertise or any of the feats that improve your saves? The ones that die first are often the types "me wield great axe! me crush you! ATTACK!!!". This might work if you face one or two enemies but not when there are more of them. Smart fighters use expertise (or one of the free feats if they don't expertise) while they are outnumbered. It will take a while to kill the enemies but usually you will be more successful. The higher AC also usually gives you enough time to drink a potion or two.

[MadSeer]

Well not all fighters are built around the default 16/14/14/14/10/10 build. And even if they do, you're average adventurer type isn't going to be carrying a tower shield around. It's ridiculously cumbersome. It's not so much as neglecting the defensive feats, but sometimes being a part of the character. Not all fighters are Weapon Masters going around with a tower shield and improved combat expertise, really.

[Maevan2]

You don't have to be a weapon master and use a tower shield to be able to use expertise

Of course not everybody has the 13 INT and not everybody runs around in a tin can and uses a tower shield. I don't like the idea of running around with a fullplate and a towershield no matter what char i play so understand what you mean. But turning your brain of and jumping into a group of 5 orcs is the best way to get killed unless you have a high AC. It might work for the main character in the movies. But in D&D you can be sure that this is your end as the game mechanics don't care about your character concept. It is just some simple math.

[Fezzik]

Acutally what works for Main Characters in the movies is something called Bullet Proof Nudity; the theory being the less you wear, the more likely you are to survive; think of Aliens; she ended up wearing just a flimsy tee shirt, and all the marines with their heavy gear were all dead (except the one that was nearly dead). It's a known fact that the less armour or protection you have on, the less likely you are to be hit... and if you are a member of the Empires Army, you're trained never to hit anyone that isn't wearing one of those funny rebel hats.

[Sir Kharn]

I think many fighters often neglect their defensive feats. How many fighters take expertise or any of the feats that improve your saves? The ones that die first are often the types "me wield great axe! me crush you! ATTACK!!!". This might work if you face one or two enemies but not when there are more of them. Smart fighters use expertise (or one of the free feats if they don't expertise) while they are outnumbered. It will take a while to kill the enemies but usually you will be more successful. The higher AC also usually gives you enough time to drink a potion or two.

If i was going to make a fighter i'd be taking whatever feats are necessary to improve my survival. Another thing i've found to avoid is short sightedness....think of what you want your toon to be like at lvl 20 and STICK TO IT....unless you see something cool then do that

[Torgar]

Tigen can solo Mossdale, and Torgar probably could too, if he wanted to. But what few people understand is that we dont' WANT to solo those areas, or at least I do not. I only solo when I HAVE to get money, because i'm almost out of it. I group all the time, just ask anyone. I've even got alts to play on occasions when my main is bored and can't group with people, so I play the alt so I CAN group. Sure, most of my primary characters are casters, that's because I know a lot of casters who are selfish with buffs, or just solo with their overpowered undead pets, and I make all my casters be able to help a group out. Torgar is complete party buffer/healer, not an uber cleric tank. Tarkanik is my wizzy, and he just buffs up his team and then sits back with a crossbow, because I spent most of my spells making my group be cool. And Tigen just has a lot of spells, but I make sure to buff everyone on the team, and usually will sacrifice my own buffs so the front line can be fully stocked. What I'm trying to get at Root, is there ARE casters out there who just want a big, beefy fighter in front to kill everything that wants to hurt our frail caster bodies. You don't have to LIKE casters, just don't threaten to rip our throats out every time you see them just because they can't bend adamantine in half with their rippling biceps is all. A lot of us are pretty open to helping Helga out, actually, we are just waiting for her to realize that no one is a one-man show, and it's alright to ask for help and work as part of a team, we are all just a little weary of her right now, if she just asks for help, i'm sure there will be plenty of casters there to answer the call.

[Root]

You know, I have grouped with casters before, ICly. There are a few out there that have realised that whilst magic-hypocrisy and an initial dislike for people who throw magic around freely are two of her properties, complete if brutal honesty, reliability, and holding action over words are other properties.

My characters (not my) main problem is with people who will throw around magic, almost for the sake of doing so. The more people like that she sees, the more likely she is to hate all the casters around. Hells, on her second or so day of creation, she was looming by the trailer wagon at the campfire when someone started hurling bolts of lightning right next to her and giggling happily. Whilst OOC I know that it's basically just someone showing off and that they didn't target me with it, ICly, someone just almost killed me with a lightning bolt, apparently for fun. The action is the equivalent of me standing in front of someone, slashing my sword past both sides of their face.

Any devout priest of most Gods (save for the evil or mad ones) will have Hel's respect, and a suprising amount of it. Anyone who's seen her go from a hateful git to a respectful servant the moment Warfather Waryn Signe wanders past will attest to this. This isn't limited to Tempus, either, though he gets extra-special treatment for it.

Anyway, Hel values action far above words, and in following this, you'll see her actions in helping casters far differ from her words in disliking them. She's actively disliked Sebastian for his un-druidyness whilst calling himself one, but she still holds respect for him and has dragged him back to be healed when he got beaten up by a vamp. She dislikes Tigen, basically because he's a caster, but she deep-down knows he's fighting for good, and when push came to shove, she would stand at his side against the hordes of darkness. She's even said this to him OOC. But if you're expecting it to mean she suddenly starts smiling happily and going 'Hi, Tigen!' and roasting marshmallows with him, it's not going to happen.


Hel sees anyone she'd fight with as her brother/sister, and would risk if not give her life to save them.

You don't always have to get along with your brothers or sisters, but you know you'd stand by their side if things got serious.


Take Theeri. She only found out the gnome was a mage until a few fights into the Necropolis, but the girl had the guts to be there and was using her magic carefully. She can't bend adamantite with her muscles, but Hel still respects her.

Just a bit of an OOC insight there. There is more than meets the eye to her personality, and first impressions are going to be bad. Actions over words means more than you think. All Hel's words are bad, but her actions mainly tend towards being good.

If Hel is arguing with you, the last thing, the absolute worst thing you want to do, is use a logical argument as to why she's in the wrong. She won't understand it, and that'll just make her hate you more. The day a mage stands up for itself when she insults it, tells her to put up with it, because there are far worse things out there than her grudges, and to stop fighting with her allies, is the day she takes out her sword, and walks with that mage to the gates of Hell itself.

The one mage she truly hated (A Red 'Zard), she killed. If she found any other good mage or disliked priest dead, she'd bring them to a priest.

tl;dr: Actions over words, don't expect her decisions to be logical, she's a hypocrite and I know it, she has a lot more respect for people than it seems through her words.

[Machiavelli]

I'm shutting down this thread because I'm not sure what it's about any more. There are all sorts of legitimate issues being discussed here, but I'm not sure how they relate to each other or to the initial post. This isn't a smackdown on discussion, just on the unfocused character this thread has developed.

Feel free to take points of interest from this thread and start new discussions about them, but this particular discourse has become little more than a mire.