Undetectable Alignment--does it exist here?

[Root]

I think you're overestimating what the Paladin class is meant for, DragonBelow.

A Paladin of Torm would be perfectly within dogma to smite anyones arse who came back as Evil. If you come back as evil on detect evil, you deserve to die. It dosen't matter if you're just 'Misunderstood' or haven't actually eaten any babies recently or just took the alignment for Assassin or Blackguard levels for your build. You're evil. You're much more than the average person.

90% of commoners are Neutral. They don't have strong enough feelings any direction to deserve any other alignment. Someone who is inherantly evil is mentally twisted, amoral, and has commited some unforgivable acts over the course of their life.

Detect Evil removes doubt from a Paladin. It gives them utter security in knowing that their actions are guided by their God. If a Paladin prays to Torm, and looks to an evil man walking down the street, he'd be within his rights to declare that he was bringing them in, give them fair-ish warning, then punch them to the floor and drag them to the Clerics of his faith for questioning.

You don't question divine right. Paladins are known as a force of Good. 99% of the time they Detect Evil on someone, that person will be found to really be utterly evil and doing something deserving of their execution or exile. If a Paladin marches into your town and declares the head of your town guard to be Evil, chances are in the investigation following his Smiting, it'll be found that he was taking bribes from the thieves guild and had killed two people who had found out, framing them for crimes that let him execute them. The remaining 1% are just the Assassins and Blackguards who just wanted save bonuses and HiPs without the evil RP. They deserve it just as much.

[Sir Kharn]

Paladin detects an evil aura coming from Timmy the crippled thief who is innocently eating an apple that he brought with money he stole from someone, said paladin immediately buffs and squashes Timmy the crippled thief into a large size crater because he detects evil. Come on give me a break, one would hope people would use a little common sense. The paladin would not instagib poor misunderstood timmy, doing such a thing in public in front of the townsfolk would cause panic and mayhem, something that only evil would do because they like that kind of thing.
Borris the insane Berzerker of bane on the other hand could be expected to be handed some armageddon on a stick for being so blatantly evil.
Common sense, google it.

[Root]

Paladin detects an evil aura coming from Timmy the crippled thief who is innocently eating an apple that he brought with money he stole from someone, said paladin immediately buffs and squashes Timmy the crippled thief into a large size crater because he detects evil. Come on give me a break, one would hope people would use a little common sense. The paladin would not instagib poor misunderstood timmy, doing such a thing in public in front of the townsfolk would cause panic and mayhem, something that only evil would do because they like that kind of thing.
Borris the insane Berzerker of bane on the other hand could be expected to be handed some armageddon on a stick for being so blatantly evil.
Common sense, google it.

That's mental. Why is Timmy evil for stealing money to feed himself?

You consider that an evil action? Stealing enough money to feed yourself, is evil now?

No.

Just... No.

Stealing isn't even evil. It's Chaotic.

No matter what you try, if you can make smiting someone seem unjustified, without being ridiculous, they're not evil.

[Sir Kharn]

That's mental. Why is Timmy evil for stealing money to feed himself?

Timmy's a thief, he steals things and that's against the law. Who's to say that he didn't cut the throat of one of his marks at one point thus earning his evilness. And who said he was stealing to feed himself? He's just standing there eating an apple. Its pretty much the same thing if your standing by the fire at the Second wind and for no apparent reason a Paladin does his little detect evil thing and starts the smiting the crapnuts outta you.
common sense

 
–noun sound practical judgment that is independent of specialized knowledge, training, or the like; normal native intelligence.

[Root]

Timmy's a thief, he steals things and that's against the law. Who's to say that he didn't cut the throat of one of his marks at one point thus earning his evilness. And who said he was stealing to feed himself? He's just standing there eating an apple. Its pretty much the same thing if your standing by the fire at the Second wind and for no apparent reason a Paladin does his little detect evil thing and starts the smiting the crapnuts outta you.
common sense

 
–noun sound practical judgment that is independent of specialized knowledge, training, or the like; normal native intelligence.

Then if little timmy was, indeed, a mass murderer as well as a thief (assuming, since he's apparently Evil, that he cut their throats just because he wanted to, and not in self-defense), they he's evil and Paladin would be justified in smacking him down if he resisted (subdueing) and delivering him to Clerics so that he can be converted to Good, possibly.

[Cornuto]

What about a Red Wizard who hasn't broken any laws, but is evil through and through? What about a evil nobleman who does amoral but legal profiteering off the poor and unfortunate?
Etc.

A paladin better have something other than 'well they failed detect evil' when he explains to the legion why he took out his sword and starts going to town on people.

[Fezzik]

That's a wonderful reason for the Paladin to tell said Red Wizard to go jump in a lake if they need help or want to hang out with the Paladin.

I'm not a big fan of Characters that use the "just following orders" to justify staying neutral either, it's happened in the past, and it makes no sense to me. Every soldier has the right to refuse an order, especially if they think it's immoral (and if they don't, then they're in the wrong type of army)

[Root]

If that's the DM's ruling, then I'll run by it. But in vanilla FRealms, a Paladins word is the word of his God, one step out of line and he Falls. He can't lie, he can't associate with anyone who breaks the Paladins code too often, and heck..

'Strike quickly and forcefully against rot in the hearts of mortals. Bring painful, quick death to traitors.'

That there is from Torm, Patron God of Paladins' Dogma. It's their duty to smite evil. And every failure in duty diminishes Torm. Paladins are one in ten-thousand people in the setting, they're practically the Chosen One of their Gods. Favoured Souls tend to be rarer (lol), but that's besides the point. To question a Paladin is to question their God, because if said Paladin didn't act like the God wanted, poof, they're fallen. And what Torm wants his followers to do is to smite evil where they find it.

If you're a Paladin, and someone comes back as evil, that's Torm saying 'This bugger here is a foul, corrupt individual, probably killed a few blokes and worships some evil deity or demon and is generally a bit of a nuisance, and should be stricken from the face of this planet. Chop chop.'

They're the universally recognised, high-charisma champions of Good. Good people praise them for their nobility, honesty, and actions against evil. Neutral folks tend to thank them for getting rid of the Evil folks who were opressing or inconveniencing them. Evil folks run, or try to kill it.

[Philosopher]

Mortal beings, do not typically have an "Aura" of evil detectable by this power, with the exception of Clerics as they are a conduit of their gods power and are thus tainted. Evil artifacts and other things charged with foul energy are detectable as well.

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/detectevil.htm

This spell, does, in fact, detect non-supernatural evil people, as outlined by the first entry on the graph discussing "Evil Creatures," it is only the power of their aura that is under question. Undead, outsiders, and clerics have their own entries as well and have stronger corresponding auras.

[MadSeer]

Timmy's a thief, he steals things and that's against the law. Who's to say that he didn't cut the throat of one of his marks at one point thus earning his evilness. And who said he was stealing to feed himself? He's just standing there eating an apple. Its pretty much the same thing if your standing by the fire at the Second wind and for no apparent reason a Paladin does his little detect evil thing and starts the smiting the crapnuts outta you.
common sense

 
–noun sound practical judgment that is independent of specialized knowledge, training, or the like; normal native intelligence.

Paladins are Lawful Good which are expected to follow every last rule of their God to the letter, and that includes smiting evil. If something evil turns up, then mister Paladin has to stop the source, even if it's a cripple eating an apple. In that case, he probably wouldn't Smite him, but he'd take him and bring him in.

When something evil turns up, it's because it's really evil. Someone didn't just overtax the commonfolk. He probably ruined them, made them starve, extorted some of them, threatened, let them die, etc, etc. And a Paladin would bring him to face justice, righteous wrath, whatever.

And Cornuto, laws are relative. A Paladin of Tyr wouldn't allow for a zombie to be made, even if it's legal in the place he is (in this case he's probably in whatever place that is to Smite everyone, but still). By striking down the Red Wizard that is evil to the core, the Paladin does, for example, Torm's bidding.

[Cornuto]

I didn't say he'd fall from paladinhood for going all righteous on folks, I was saying he's going to have some legal problems.

[MadSeer]

Oh. Well ... yeah he would.

[roguethree]

Sense==>Smite robot paladins don't stay paladins very long. That whole lawful alignment requirement thing.

[Doubtful]

Well, if their vows are to hunt down and smite the heck out of evil where ever it rears its head, then there's no reason that they'd be operating outside of alignment.

Remember: Lawful ≠ Obeying the law.

[nezzerscape]

Well, if their vows are to hunt down and smite the heck out of evil where ever it rears its head, then there's no reason that they'd be operating outside of alignment.

Remember: Lawful ≠ Obeying the law.

Perhaps… but:

lawful = not chaotic

Assuming chaotic does not mean you obey the law
-or-
chaotic = not “obeying the law”

with substitution:
lawful = not (not “obeying the law”)

This simplifies to:
lawful = (obeying the law)

rather simple doing you think