Captured PCs - What should be done?

[GodBeastX]

Well, I don't watch the TV show you were talking about so it's not a good reference for me. However, people do attack things without DMs present to handle it. Talosians explode Sunites, Rangers cut down exigo guards, soldiers get murdered, etc etc. DM may not be on or see this, but players are. Players want to react when their beloved lands are attacked.

That's what I'm getting at.

However, we're discussing things revolving around this and I think a very good system is coming together that might make people feel a lot better about all of this.

[Gurkak]

This is forcing a square peg into a round hole, IMO. We're trying to get away from forced, unnatural situations for DMs, but this is along the same lines as what is currently in place (the "oops they escaped" routine).

I believe DMs should behave just like PNP DMs for these situations. DMs should just make judgement calls on 1) was the PVP handled within our rules 2) what should capture rewards / punishments be. I'd really rather not do weird re-writes of captures just to accommodate.

Anyway, I have a proposal on the staff side that we can hopefully review. It takes most everything into consideration here and isn't really a big change. It just empowers DMs to make judgement calls in these capture situations.

Points 1) and 2) sound appropriate to me. Things should make sense within the world and it's Dungeon Master not Dungeon May I.. To use the now cliche phrase.

Well, I don't watch the TV show you were talking about so it's not a good reference for me. However, people do attack things without DMs present to handle it. Talosians explode Sunites, Rangers cut down exigo guards, soldiers get murdered, etc etc. DM may not be on or see this, but players are. Players want to react when their beloved lands are attacked.

That's what I'm getting at.

However, we're discussing things revolving around this and I think a very good system is coming together that might make people feel a lot better about all of this.

Certainly, PCs can attack other PCs as they can account for their actions and respond but it's downright ridiculous to claim to attack Sundren city and burn it to the ground when the NPCs had no voice or action to respond; therefore, if attacking "beloved lands" or equivalent a DM has to be there or there's no logical way what supposedly occured could have as the opposing team, so to speak, isn't represented in the least.

Hopefully the rules system in discussion lays this out blatantly for the people who don't get the obtuse common sense of this fact.

[DeathRose52]

Ha, i was using cirion as an Idea of my point... as in if he played all that time. Perhaps i should used Varn, im sure i got 4-5 days racked up. As far i see it, do what you want. Seem more people are welcoming Perma-death then not, people need understand it if it comes down to a No choice but that. If your going play evil or good, need be careful in your actions and who you travel with.

[undeadsteak]

I'll throw in my little bit here. My last server was a server where you had three lives. Died? Too bad. Go make a new character.
I'll say it now: That's not the greatest system. You might think perma death at the hands of random monsters will build fear and better RP, but it does the exact opposite on the latter. It makes everyone not act like adventurers and instead like commoners that should instead be staying in their safe little homes doing their daily jobs, which makes absolutely no sense: Why would they be adventurers in the first place if they don't take risks?

However, I've been of the mindset that PvP should always result in a permadeath, because how often does PvP really happen? Maybe a bit more on Sundren than other servers due to the factions, so perhaps it'd need a slightly different system. Same things with large scale DM events. They should hold great risks for great rewards.

[cdnspr]

i agree with alot of what's being said here. like i said earlier, i am in favour of permadeath, but it sucks when all that stuff you put into a character hasnt culminated before he gets the axe.

there's one recurring thing that keeps popping up, though

They should hold great risks for great rewards.

I agree 100% with that. My only problem with it is, engaging in behaviour where you should risk permadeath generally doesn't yield that great reward. Not from what I've seen anyway. Undeadsteak suggested that pvp should result in permadeath, and maybe he's right. But where's that ultimate reward for pvp to counterbalance the ultimate risk? Sure, 500-1000xp (if any dms are watching) and bragging rights are nice, but unless killing that one PC or town guard (or whatever else you do to risk getting permed) magically solves all your character's problems or saves the day or whatever, risking the ultimate penalty hardly seems worth it.

[Urithrand]

Reward is not always measurable in exp terms cdnspr. Renown, signuses, faction rep, these things are all powerful rewards.

So come to think of it, perhaps if people suggest that we should take permadeath off the table than we should also take these rewards off the table too ^^

But regardless, we seem to have hit a wall with this topic and there's one or two people getting a tad riled up so I think this is the end of the road for this thread. Thanks to everyone who put in constructive input, we'll get back to you all when we've made a firm ruling on the subject