PvP Ettiquette

[Garfaldo]

This might be a can of worms... but what do you guys think of certain abilities that can be overpowering in PvP?

In my idea it should be as pure and fair as possible. I don't believe in guzzling many healing potions in PvP, spamming abilites like knockdown and disarm, or abusing overpowered spells repeatedly. It is annoying when other people "pull out all the stops" to win by using game mechanics to their maximum advantage

Should there also be common courtesies like not beating the person to death past bleeding state? Giving a raise until the exp penalty is removed from PvP death? Sticking around when dead for any RP actions with the corpse?

I don't think you can really enforce any type of rules, but maybe people could just excercise some constraint? I think if there is any server where something like this would have a chance on, it'd be here.

[Saulus]

Spamming knockdown I do frown upon, same as spamming disarm. Spells I see a bit differently, it depends on the spell. Spamming something like grease constantly until they fail the DC is a bit cheap. Potions on the other hand are something I think is rather fair to do, it takes a few seconds to drink them and can make fights more challenging. Although there is a certain point where you can see that they are clearly being supported by the potions and wouldn't stand a chance otherwise.

[GodBeastX]

If they want to spam potions, that's better to me than spamming anything else, because potions represent finite resources and likely coin. People using consumables in PVP are wasting money.

I DO HATE IMPLICITLY THOSE WHO METAGAME KNOWING SOMEONE IS BUFFED!

Grow up, you can't tell if someone has bullstrength on to wait for it to go away.

[Ithildin]

The one pvp I have been I found it hard to tell when the bleeding state happend since the characters are still standing.

[InquisitorFury]

I think if Knockdown and Disarm are used every few rounds then it isnt so bad. Myself I dont have any characters who have the feats, but I imagine some people rely on them heavily.

[Saulus]

The one pvp I have been I found it hard to tell when the bleeding state happend since the characters are still standing.

Yes, it's a cause of great annoyance in the game but there is little we can do until Obsidian fixes it.

[Mikara]

O this links a bit from the other topic on knockdown.

I would be rather hesitant to put limits on what folks can do in pvp. Yes certain abilities and classes are more powerful than others. If winning in pvp isn't your main concern then you might do stuff more out of whim and rp possibility than strategy, but if someone really enjoys winning and using all their resources to the nth degree, why deny them that pleasure? (Im in the former group but I dont begrudge the "winner" mentality in any way)

I think enforcing a certain playstyle such as "winning should not be the object" gets too restrictive and takes away the free play of creativity.

In the same way, one person suggested to me you should ask permission to attack a PC and they have to consent. This would be a really immersion breaking restriction to me. When a spittlefist goblin charges me is there a popup window that says "Will you allow this goblin to harm you?" Putting players in that framework just breaks the whole spell in my opinion.

So much great drama and adventure comes out of pvp conflicts. I think we should leave it as open as possible. Lets roleplay from results rather than try dictate what results should be.

[Saulus]

O this links a bit from the other topic on knockdown.

I would be rather hesitant to put limits on what folks can do in pvp. Yes certain abilities and classes are more powerful than others. If winning in pvp isn't your main concern then you might do stuff more out of whim and rp possibility than strategy, but if someone really enjoys winning and using all their resources to the nth degree, why deny them that pleasure? (Im in the former group but I dont begrudge the "winner" mentality in any way)

I think enforcing a certain playstyle such as "winning should not be the object" gets too restrictive and takes away the free play of creativity.

In the same way, one person suggested to me you should ask permission to attack a PC and they have to consent. This would be a really immersion breaking restriction to me. When a spittlefist goblin charges me is there a popup window that says "Will you allow this goblin to harm you?" Putting players in that framework just breaks the whole spell in my opinion.

So much great drama and adventure comes out of pvp conflicts. I think we should leave it as open as possible. Lets roleplay from results rather than try dictate what results should be.

The problem with your philosophy is that you're working under the assumption that knockdown isn't highly unbalanced. But it actually happens to be, Obsidian changed stealth from NWN1 because people could spam it, however they seem to have botched knockdown. I think a small cooldown timer is a lot more realistic and fair to everyone.

[iammyowneviltwin]

This might (further) highlight my ignorance, but how do you "spam" knockdown? It seems that would be more acceptable being a learned ability than magic and what not. As far as potions... well, I haven't been in any real "trying to kill each other" fights in my life but I bet you couldn't swallow a pepsi before I belted you on the jaw... accepting of course the not so real to life nature of RP worlds. If these comments are way off base please consider the source and correct/ignore as applicable you just have to look at Remi's build and meager collection of fancy magical gizmos to know I'm not real savvy on the technical side of things here... but I absolutely love the world you made here and really enjoy playing here

[iammyowneviltwin]

ok... after reading the two posts that posted while I was writing my post I now realize that I was unclear as to the definition of spamming... and I further more feel, well, kind of duuuhhhh now, so I'm just going to go sit in a virtual corner

[Cheatcake]

This might (further) highlight my ignorance, but how do you "spam" knockdown?

By using it over and over and over again. It's not too useful when you're alone and level 5 or under (just one attack), but if you have someone else to attack while you keep the target down or you have 2+ attacks, you can just keep the target laid down in amazement as he/she/it is killed

[GodBeastX]

This might (further) highlight my ignorance, but how do you "spam" knockdown? It seems that would be more acceptable being a learned ability than magic and what not. As far as potions... well, I haven't been in any real "trying to kill each other" fights in my life but I bet you couldn't swallow a pepsi before I belted you on the jaw... accepting of course the not so real to life nature of RP worlds. If these comments are way off base please consider the source and correct/ignore as applicable you just have to look at Remi's build and meager collection of fancy magical gizmos to know I'm not real savvy on the technical side of things here... but I absolutely love the world you made here and really enjoy playing here

I believe drinking potions gives attack of opportunity in alot of cases. The problem is Knockdown isn't a "real" ability. It's a NWN ability, which is believed to be based on trip? In NWN1 it was fine to spam it because you had Disc checks as well as AC made people miss. Knockdown attempts were -4 AB, so it was fine. People complained a bit because they had to put skill points in Disc for everything.

Now, people don't have to put skill points in Disc (Horray!) but the ability always hits! ALWAYS! So people just spam knockdown and laugh at the other guy.

When you watch a level 3 kill a level 20 wizard with knockdown spam, you'll get the picture.

[Ithildur]

I believe drinking potions gives attack of opportunity in alot of cases. The problem is Knockdown isn't a "real" ability. It's a NWN ability, which is believed to be based on trip? In NWN1 it was fine to spam it because you had Disc checks as well as AC made people miss. Knockdown attempts were -4 AB, so it was fine. People complained a bit because they had to put skill points in Disc for everything.

Now, people don't have to put skill points in Disc (Horray!) but the ability always hits! ALWAYS! So people just spam knockdown and laugh at the other guy.

When you watch a level 3 kill a level 20 wizard with knockdown spam, you'll get the picture.

Not to imply you're not being truthful GBX, but I'd like to see you try that with a lvl 3 against a lvl 20 wizard and kill him... A slight exaggeration perhaps?

I'd be glad to be the lvl 20 wiz and let you attempt that. And saying the wizard lost his spellbook isn't fair.

[Cheatcake]

Well.... as Knockdown is, a level 3 wouldn't be able to kill said wizard because of the single attack and no damage. BUT if he got the first knockdown in, he could keep most unbuffed level 20 wizards down into sickness If the level 3 happened to have a buddy along, even a level 1, the wizard would die eventually, tho

[Ithildur]

Well.... as Knockdown is, a level 3 wouldn't be able to kill said wizard because of the single attack and no damage. BUT if he got the first knockdown in, he could keep most unbuffed level 20 wizards down into sickness If the level 3 happened to have a buddy along, even a level 1, the wizard would die eventually, tho

That's not what he said. He said a lvl 3 killed the lvl 20 wizard. even if the wizard was unbuffed he should've still kill the PC quickly if it's one on one.

Sure, if the lvl 3 had a lvl 10 fighter friend, that *might* be a different story. Might.

Now if Contingency was in NWN2... then... pfft... Knockdown schnockdown, high lvl wizards would be the most powerful class, as they are supposed to be in FR with it's strong Weave.