Knockdown?

[Zoberraz]

Don't forget, before moving to alter knockdown, that it is an ability someone might have invested one feat or two into. Not all of us are fighters with ample amounts of feats - we only have 7 to go on.

Due to the feat investment, it has to remain a worthwhile option in combat.

edit: No, I do not have knockdown and don't really care for it - though I've once seen its worth with an Original Campaign character in NWN1.

[GodBeastX]

Don't forget, before moving to alter knockdown, that it is an ability someone might have invested one feat or two into. Not all of us are fighters with ample amounts of feats - we only have 7 to go on.

Due to the feat investment, it has to remain a worthwhile option in combat.

edit: No, I do not have knockdown and don't really care for it - though I've once seen its worth with an Original Campaign character in NWN1.

I have no idea why you said that?

[Vichtor]

For the record...since I can't find it mentioned in this thread anywhere.

There are a few known bugs with Knockdown.

1. It always hits. (You can only resist it afterward (on the opposed stat check), but it actually requires an attack to strike your opponant that is not occuring right now). I am a wind generator! My goal is to move all the air away from you and kill you through suffocation! To ensure you remain still while I do this, I will use Knockdown!

2. It ignores concealment. Even total concealment. Can't hit that pesky Drow in his Darkness spell? Use knockdown to keep him still until it wears off!

3. It only checks STR vs. STR instead of the intended "higher of STR or DEX". What's that, Mr. Rogue? You have 26 dex? Too bad! My check is going against that 14 str!


Knockdown is as buggy as stealth is right now, only in the exact opposite direction; it works.

[Cheatcake]

I have no idea why you said that?

I think he means there might be people crying if Knockdown is changed, the ones who have taken it and rely a lot on it

[Anthropic]

Knockdown is stupid.

At least in NWN1 it worked on AC, sure some people didn't have disc, but they could do things like imp invis and such to evade it, it always hits in NWN2.

If I watch PVP that is just a series of Knockdown spams I'll probably deduct XP.

"But godbeast! That isn't fair!"

Neither is getting a feat at level 1 that can't be stopped in any way. Going to look into putting a cooldown timer on Knockdown like other abilities have.

GBX, I am really starting to like your style.

I'm not going to go into a long rant about this, but it is glaringly obvious both Bioware and Obsidian have both dropped the ball on implimenting the the trip feat.

I also agree with reviewing this feat and attempting to make it less potent.

[Pulseczar]

Perhaps make it so that KD takes up the whole round action, or every other attack in the round you make a KD attempt does no damage. So even if people spam it, they won't do any damage, regardless of the number of attacks they have.

[Ithildur]

I think he means there might be people crying if Knockdown is changed, the ones who have taken it and rely a lot on it

DMs can give/take feats with the DMFI I believe, so that should take care of that.

[Cheatcake]

DMs can give/take feats with the DMFI I believe, so that should take care of that.

I don't know what the current DMFI is like, but I bet there would be people wanting KD back, not a replacement hehe

[GodBeastX]

No we can't

[Ithildur]

Yes, it was still a fun incident, I'm just wondering if my future as a fearsome cleric of Shar is going to be lying on my back 90% of the time in which case I could have just become a fearsome harlot of Shar and saved alot of trouble.

And there may be other broken abilities I just don't know about. Being honest with myself I suppose this post was a sort of half-rant in that I expect there to be *some* defense to certain things. Instant death spells give you a chance with saving throws/touch attack. Damage gives you a chance with armour class. Had I been knocked down/interrupted half the fight I would have thought "Nice ability. Better avoid big fighters" In this case I was down 7 or 8 rounds straight through high armor class and concealment. It just seemed..odd. So I came to the boards looking for advice.

Just curious, how does a cleric get melee concealment? I didn't think clerics had any spells that offer concealment.

[GodBeastX]

Just curious, how does a cleric get melee concealment? I didn't think clerics had any spells that offer concealment.

They don't anymore that I know of. Trickery domain in NWN1 used to have it.

[Mikara]

Just curious, how does a cleric get melee concealment? I didn't think clerics had any spells that offer concealment.

I had on my svirfneblin invisibility which I thought granted concealment. Maybe it doesn't. I might get a concealment spell later on as a cleric but not sure.

[Cheatcake]

It grants the regular concelament from being invisible, until you attack Since you were fighting, I guess it went down at your first attack

[Kaldaris]

For the record...since I can't find it mentioned in this thread anywhere.

There are a few known bugs with Knockdown.

1. It always hits. (You can only resist it afterward (on the opposed stat check), but it actually requires an attack to strike your opponant that is not occuring right now). I am a wind generator! My goal is to move all the air away from you and kill you through suffocation! To ensure you remain still while I do this, I will use Knockdown!

2. It ignores concealment. Even total concealment. Can't hit that pesky Drow in his Darkness spell? Use knockdown to keep him still until it wears off!

3. It only checks STR vs. STR instead of the intended "higher of STR or DEX". What's that, Mr. Rogue? You have 26 dex? Too bad! My check is going against that 14 str!


Knockdown is as buggy as stealth is right now, only in the exact opposite direction; it works.

This is pretty much it.

Otherwise; TLDR, such a big discussion over a bugged feat.

[Poor_Otis]

is Obsidian gonna fix it?

Just wondering if Obsidian has stated any intent to change/fix KD and IKD. If so, when?

Might be worth waiting to see their fix before taking the time to alter it here. I agree it needs fixing. I have it for one character (KD only) and hardly use it since it feels...wrong...as it is currently implemented. He's a rogue/fighter and to add to the needed fixes by Obsidian, a knocked down monster should be getting sneak attacked. That is, all prone targets should be getting sneak attacked. But, they aren't.

Obsidian's been good about patches and support. I bet they have this stuff on the radar. Just a question of: is it worth the Builders' efforts? Bang for the buck type question...I'd rather have them creating content and other more imperative fixes than messing with KD.

Just my opinion of course.