Fubar'd timeline

[Zoberraz]

I don't get turned off by good drow, or Eilistraee. Her death also had tons of significance and cured a lot of ambiguity that GBX pointed out.

What I personally dislike is an elven community effectively being ruled by non-drow Eilistraee priestess, with no drow in sight, and Corellon tucked under the pillow. <rants>Just why did it have to be Eilistraee?</rant>

But the same argument can very well be met for any elf ranger that worships Mielikki when elves have their own ranger god Solonor, or Silvanus instead of Rillifane Rallathil, or then again Selune instead of Sehanine Moonbow.

I agree with Kaeldorn. Please don't overeact - if you happen to lay eyes on this thread again. There's no reason why a pet peeve of mine and a wry note from a DM on a topic should make you feel unwelcome or hated. I assure you.

Heck, I've been exposed to far more elf-hate from The Frontier Reborn's IRC channel, and I sort of take pride in my RP portrayal so it stings... so I think I can relate with you. But don't turn your back for idly spoken opinions - no one turned up and deliberatingly said: "Lol, U suck for liking Eilistraee!!1!" We should be able to discuss the topic and disagree without feeling we are stepping on eggshells.

Still, for what it's worth, I apologize.

[Iso]

In the same way, there aren't many deity options for evil Elves, the sort of individuals who may be the wide-traveling and seek personal power. Being a spiritual people, Elves are likely to seek out a patron who encourages their interests.

In the end, whether a god was born a Human or not, their presence is felt and during the Time of Troubles was even seen by mortal eyes and certainly the long lived Elves. There's no way anyone in their right mind could doubt their existence or power.

[GodBeastX]

Well i'm sure people hate me now x-x For what I said.

I'm just going to leave Sundren. With Luskan effectively destroyed from the spellplague and Eilistraee dead and everyone loving it dead and saying how much she fails after I said that I liked the deity

No point in making a leaving post though, I already made a coming back post a few days ago o-o if anyone wants to know why i'm gone, just refer to this post ^_^

Bye people *hug*

Nobody hates you, and Eilistraee isn't dead, nor is the spell plague running around. Sundren is 1372 and pretty much stuck there. It's future past 1372 will end up it's own timeline that doesn't coincide with source books.

You gotta realize, we're all nerdy geeks here who like to discuss things that have little to do with the actual server You gotta be used to opinions and conflicts of them. I'm sure alot of people who havn't posted love Eilistraee XD It's just that in online games Good aligned drow are over done.

[Iso]

Not that there are many Drow on Sundren. 3.

[The Almight Red]

Which is why it stands out from many other servers, to be honest. One of the most appealing things about this server, to myself, is its heavy restriction on ECL races. Not only in just granting them to people, but in the base requirement of even being considered, with the RotM.

I love it, because it essentially creates a system that will always keep ECLs at a minimum in relation to the rest of the races.

Nothing ruins a Tiefling as much as there being 50 other ones running around. Extraordinary characters become mundane. The surreal becomes the ordinary.

So, yeah. I honestly have no problem with good drow. If they're incredibly rare, and the player recognizes their character is going to be treated like garbage by 99% of people. Because, well, drow are largely evil, scary, and should be shot on sight.

I imagine that would appeal to some players, though. Trying to play a character that's immediately hated and despised by most people, who tries to find their place in the world, while still struggling to be a 'good' person. Think paladins have it hard enough? Imagine trying to be like a paladin, but being hated by not just the evil people, but even all the good people. Good times!

[Biohazard89]

OK firstly...Drow on the surface are RARE!...secondly Good drow are even more RARE.

I like the fact that there isnt alot of ECL races in play seeing as Assimars ans Tieflings not to mention Genasis are a VERY uncommon thing and most people would Burn then at the stake because of superstition.

But what i find really rare on the server...and actually non existent..is the sheer lack of people who play REAL evil..you knwo the kind of people who arnt cynical, those that arnt maniacle and chatoc destructive individuals..Those that are persosn who you can relate to who can have friends while useing imoral means to further their own goals through the use of subterfuge, Silverlined Diplomacy and bending the law to their own personal gains. These are thigns we should discuss not about ECl races IMO because as it is...i dont really see any point in Drow Duergar Svirfneblin Yuan-ti Purebloods, even being in sundren...Theres nothing for them to gain there...Sundren is a backwater kingdom in faerun stuck in the middle of nowhere between Luskan and Silverymoonn and the Ten towns to the north.

[The Almight Red]

Actually, in my short time here, I've had the oppurtunity to come under the conclusion that there are quite a few deceitful evil type of individuals around. But you have to remember, this is a place where paladins walk around in the open in quite some number. The fact that paladins can detect evil at will makes it much more difficult for the 'facade' evil types to convince the communities they have no ill intent. I'm not saying it's impossible. It's certainly more difficult, however.

In PnP D&D, heroes aren't flying out of the woodwork like they will be on a PW server. I could pull up an old campaign like Temple of Elemental Evil, and the vast majority of people in the town aren't paladins and rangers and the like. They're just your normal schmucks (which is represented to a degree on Sundren).

Whenever you have a communal effort, such as this, some dynamics are going to inevitably change, and it's difficult to entirely sidestep. But from what I've seen of the server and its players? Very impressive. Incredibly so.

I honestly think there are a lot more of those 'subtle evils' than you first might assume.

[Iso]

There's a fair few of individuals trying to protect Sundren by any means necessary, including over the top and entirely unnecessary brutality. There's also many more trying to corrupt and tear it down from within and yet even more wolves in sheep's clothing walking amongst the flock, just waiting for the moment to strike.

[Doubtful]

But what i find really rare on the server... and actually non existent..is the sheer lack of people who play REAL evil.. you knwo the kind of people who arnt cynical, those that arnt maniacle and chatoc destructive individuals.. Those that are persosn who you can relate to who can have friends while useing imoral means to further their own goals through the use of subterfuge, Silverlined Diplomacy and bending the law to their own personal gains.

Firstly, since when has cynicism been the sole preserve of evil people?
It's perfectly feasible for a person to be, and do, good while being a generally sarcastic idiot with no manners.
There are a many subversively evil types on the server who work behind the scenes and use politics to further their agenda, of course on account of their evil being done behind the scenes you may not have noticed them. Trouble is if they do eventually get outed then people start whining that they wern't actually evil because they didn't eat babies.

[Iso]

people start whining that they wern't actually evil because they didn't eat babies.

Tell me about it.

[Biohazard89]

i was speaking out of my own experiences on the server

[GodBeastX]

OK firstly...Drow on the surface are RARE!...secondly Good drow are even more RARE.

But what i find really rare on the server...and actually non existent..is the sheer lack of people who play REAL evil..

Surface Drow aren't all THAT rare. Really depends on the region of Faerun you're in.

And as for "Real" evil. I don't think that's really a fair way to judge people. Let people play their evils as they wish within the rules of the server.

And as for lack of plotting evils. Did you ever consider that there may be a ton of them and you just don't know about it? I certainly seem to be running more plots for these plotting evils than any other DM requests.

[Kaeldorn]

Personally, I loved the way Pyras played evil. He was obviously hiding lots of things, but it was hard to really get to him because there never was enough evidence to get him convicted or anything. Plus he used political influence to get what he wanted and to cover his tracks. Completely hidden evils that never show their face and never intend to aren't all that fun for the non-evils as an adversary. It leads to more interesting situations if vague rumors and half-truths are being spread with no real grounds to be based on. Staying wholly hidden may be more effective, but it lacks tension.

[Iso]

Not all evils are adversaries of good. Some are allies.

[Kaeldorn]

To CG people with ends justify the means philosophies maybe