NWN2 Patch 1.23 released

[Cornuto]

I was following the feedback thread on the 1.23 beta with Obsidian discussing the changes.

Apparently the monster attacking invisible people before was based on a DC:20 listen check or something (which everyone complained about), and the decision to add silence was made only to stop monsters from attacking invisible folks. As a DM I'll still require MS checks for those using invisibility.

[Kaeldorn]

I dunno, but.. couldn't they simply have disabled that then?

[Cornuto]

In a sense, they did.

[Kaeldorn]

Well the AI didn't use to follow invisible folks based on a listen check before SoZ. It would have only needed a revert.

[Phantom Lamb]

Because two workarounds that arrive back at the starting point is much more creative!

[Fezzik]

One wonders now if Zone of Revelation will work on the Invisible people as well then, since it's supposed to force you out of stealth....

[Kaeldorn]

I think the scenario must have been something like this:

1 month before SoZ release..
"Heeey... AI programmer. We have this cool idea to make monsters hunt after invisible PC's based on hearing. Think you could implement something like that?"
"Sure, no problem."

2 months later, the AI programmer has moved on to Obsidian's next project. And the team still working on modifying the engine becomes much more limited for economical reasons. In the meantime, people start complaining how invisibility is now useless in many cases.

"Hey guys.. we have a problem here. We don't know how the hell the AI works anymore so we need to find some way to revert that dumb idea we had a while back to make invisibile people invisible again. Any suggestions?"
"Sure, I know.. Let's copy the code of DM invisibility and apply it there too! Then we make a couple of other spells to counter it and we're done."


I wonder if talking to NPC's in NWN2 style cutscene mode makes invisible PC's visible anyway too, just like it does with DMs. Lol..

[Azulfae]

SO... they turned Invisibility into Etherealness, which is quite a lot higher level spell.

I have to agree, that change completely screws all arcane caster classes right up the Jacksy. If you wanna play a rogue now aswel, I highly reccomend 3 levels of scorcerer or wizard in there and don't bother wasting skill points on stealth. Forget Shadow dancer too, the whole PrC became void.

Is there any way to revert this for Sundren? Could it be put in a hak or even an overide?

People used to use silence to cover this base or level high enough to cast Etheralness.

Can I say, Obsidian = Retards? or is that considered flaming?

Do these guys even play D&D?

[TheBlankStare]

Can I say, Obsidian = Retards? or is that considered flaming?

Yes it is.

Stealth is one of of those things that most characters don't have much of a defense against. If we end up seeing a ton of Arcane Tricksterish characters show up this will be the reason.

[GodBeastX]

Invis is a non-issue to me. It's so easy to get around it's not even funny. And if people are worried about invis so much, just make an AOE item like "Dust of Appearance" and paranoid people can toss it around, or simply add see invisibility potions to stores. They basically implemented invis like NWN1 did it now, and I don't see alot of complaints about bioware being dumb for NWN1's invis implementation.

[black hand]

As a heavy user of invisibility under it's current settings, it hasn't really bothered me that much, and makes sense... I know I treat it the same way in my RL games. I find that if it appears a foe has noticed you, you can just click on stealth mode, and more often than not... ((95% of the time))... they lose track of you... if not run, like heck and try again if 5 seconds.

[Lothoir]

I agree with GBX, stealth characters still have it much better. At high levels they can stand right next to you as long as they please, unless you've invested in spot and listen. But even if you have a high spot and listen most of the stealthy guys on the server have HiPS, so they can just jump into a bush, then pop out again.

Invisibility has a duration of 10 min/level, which would be good if the ingame clock went at real time, but as it's significantly faster wizards are going to have a hard time keeping it up.

Of course though, any sneaky character (invisible or stealthed) should be roleplaying it, keeping a fair distance from others, and just using common sense.

[Phantom Lamb]

Right Loth, they still need to RP the cover aspect of it. Standing next to someone stealthed is unacceptable on Sundren, per the stealth rules on the Wiki

[TheBlankStare]

The problem is that unless someone can spot said hiding character there isn't really any way to enforce the rule. Such is life though.

[Intrepid42]

The problem is that unless someone can spot said hiding character there isn't really any way to enforce the rule. Such is life though.

Not in stock NWN2. But if it ever became a problem worth staff and processor time a partial counter could be written.

One example would be an occasional position check that applies a Hide skill penalty to a stealthing PC that is right next to another PC and not in their party.