Server Plots: Difficulty

[cmosier]

The important thning about the DM events is not to worry about you can't do, but try to find a niche of things that you can do. I once played a rogue through most of an event where battle wasn't his strength. Use your skills to their fullest potential.

There is a constant frustration with lower levels being mixed in with higher levels. BUt you should alway try to be there in case you have a talent nobody else has. Why make the DM's solve all the problems? Why run to the Keeper if there is a PC druid? Why go to the Hands if you have a wizard?

[Tome]

First of all, its nice to see a forum where the people involved in a disagreement are being constructive instead of yelling '@$%@ you!" back and forth to one another. It may seem odd to thank you all for that, but thanks

Second, I understand the point made here. It's valid, just difficult to accomplish. While it's important to know that there are times your character and other characters canNOT be the center of attention, wanting such things for yourself or certain others occasionally is not a bad thing.

It is claimed that things are too hard, but what happens if the enemies are toned down? Have you tried going to a lvl 10 grinding area with a lvl 15 or two in your party. They obliterate everything and make you STILL look useless. Often difficulty tries to be adjusted per the present party (as was stated), but this is a difficult to pull off. We cannot tell those lvl 15's "No you cannot join this event". Nobody likes things to be too hard, but many do not like things to be too easy either. The party split-up like Narse and Azu said, is the BEST solution as it can make it possible to alter the difficulty and can cut down on lag to boot. Only problem is, this takes two DMs to pull off, and sometimes two dms are needed to focus in one area.

I think it is VERY important that entertainment be created for all lvls. This is difficult to do in the main story plots but it does not have to end there. I for one have tried to create events where a certain character is sort of the 'star' of that event, while the role of everyone else is still just as important. I try to let everyone get their time in the spotlight because it is a good way for others to learn just what makes that character tick, plus they seem to like it.

I have another idea (which must be fairly credited to others as well) as to how to help people of a certain lvl range, but it is still in the production phase. Just know that this is something that the dms have addressed in our meetings and while a certain balance is difficult to obtain, we will still try.

P.S. CM made a good point too. I recall an event that circulated around many high lvl characters, that were guided to a certain point in the forest by a druid 7 lvls under them. It was pretty interesting. She was constantly in focus, so all the others had to protect her from the dire animals and other things that showed up while she concentrated and was guided by the spirits of nature. Constantly she was questioned for 'how close they were' and that sort of thing. Even surrounded by lvl 15s, that character was the 'star' of that event.

[Maevan2]

One of the problems with fighting in D&D and especially in a static computer game is that low level chars just can't fight high level enemies. That is not true in real live. You don't have to be a big hero as long as you can hide behind a barricade and use a spear to keep the enemy from getting through, especially if you are not alone. You don't need any skill at all to throw big stones down the wall if your castle is attacked. And a 10kg stone could kill even the greates hero if you hit him on the head with such a rock from 5m above (unless he wears a helm). You don't need to be a fighter to push the ladders away or to shoot fire arrows at the siege towers etc.

It is true that you need certain skills to survive on the battle field. But there are means to avoid a face-to-face fight in RL. A bunch of farmers could defeat a group of skilled fighters with a good ambush. But D&D you just can hit your enemy with anything no matter how perfect the ambush is. A DM could workaround these limitations by letting you build an ambush where the enemy is trapped and where you can trow your imaginary rocks at them or pour some burning oil on them if they wear heavy armor. But such things would at least take lots of time.

[Kaseira]

[

But D&D you just can hit your enemy with anything no matter how perfect the ambush is

Well in tabletop I'm assuming the DM could grant circumstance attack bonuses for these situations. Unfortunately it seems like there's not really a way for a DM in NWN2 to grant circumstance bonuses like that..is there?

[Azulfae]

Dispite and embracing all the differing opinions flying around on this topic I'm simply glad it's been heard by the DM's and recieved with consideration.

I trust you guys to do what you are 'able' to do to better the game in any way you can and for that, thankyou.

[Tome]

Dropping a rock on someone's head? Do-able (and quite fun)

Dropping a rock on someone's head while the others are fighting him and his buddies head on? Very hard to do.

We dms do try to provide different routes than just the direct approach, but while things are certainly less nerdy here than in PnP (just had to say it lol), they are also limited in some ways.

PnP has a wider variety of actions.

Games does what actions it can far faster and on a much bigger scale.

Both mediums have their strengths and weaknesses.

I will definitely try to open up a bit more opportunity to players though. In many cases, charging in will be a fast way to get your ass handed to you.

[The Entity]

[Well in tabletop I'm assuming the DM could grant circumstance attack bonuses for these situations. Unfortunately it seems like there's not really a way for a DM in NWN2 to grant circumstance bonuses like that..is there?

Nope,you cant add anything from the DM side unless its a buff spell or a stat for those situations,which are completely ooc moves on a DM if he was going to do such a thing.So its doubtful that it would ever happen.

[Maevan2]

In many cases, charging in will be a fast way to get your ass handed to you.

Thats the spirit!

[Kaeldorn]

Actually, this problem that's mentioned is not just an issue for lower levels taking part in combat intended for higher level characters. Some of us high levels often feel equally powerless compared to other level 15+ folks, and that's mainly in the attack rolls department as well. 'I only hit on a 20' is the bread and butter of Mossdale fights for Yashia, despite how she's level 17.

One solution would be to send larger numbers of lower level enemies towards the players instead, with rare tougher individuals for the stronger fighters to tackle. The only problems this brings are hardware limitations. It's only really possible to do with groups composed of 5 players or less, else it's lag + crashes all over.

[Thief Of Navarre]

Tome made some good points, it IS hard to tailor these things to levels because you normally run into the same problems if you scale things down!

[TamurtheLame]

I know how hard it is to tweak the difficulty for events and would not want to have to try it again. I understand what Azulfae was describing, but sometimes the game mechanics just don't support it.

Also, I understand what Kaeldorn is saying. Some higher level characters fair better than others because of their build or AC/AB and such. I know my archer is great when he has room to run and shoot or has a tank in front of him, but put him in the front line in Sestra, he could die very quickly. Therefore, he tries to provide the ranger stuff - scouting and such for the party, then hangs back and peppers the enemy with arrows.

However, even lower level characters can provide some support and if you do rush in, take massive damage right away, then you know you are outclassed and will have to retreat to provide a difference service for the party.

I do think Azulfae's idea of seperate parties for lower and higher level characters is a great idea, but again, you would probably need two DMs for that. Another idea that was floated around is if you have two higher levels and the rest lower levels, "tell" the higher levels they are more in a command situation and direct events and then intercede if all seems lost.

[Silas North]

This is true.. What we need are more tanks.

Free cookies to whomever makes the next Dwarven Defender or AC-based fighter.

Kael's idea of adding more spawns of meh power is not a bad idea too, but as was stated there's the hardware thing.

[Azulfae]

Hey I have a nicely advancing Half-orc Barbarian/fighter Tank and I can tell you no other character I play is so welcomed in a party.

Most servers I have ever played on always had a majority of non casting melee types, for some reason this server has a heavy majority in the region of casters.

Too much veg and not enough meat in my opinion.

I think a lot of people get a bit bored playing a tank though. There is not much variation to them after a time. With a caster you are always getting new spells.

This is going off the topic a bit so heres a link to a thread more on this topic.

http://www.sundren.org/forum/showthread.php?t=11015

[Phantom Lamb]

Large scale battles will always benefit the higher level players. When an army attacks somewhere, they are just going to shine no matter what we do. You'll have to find other ways to contribute besides battle if you're worried about not getting hits in.

Those who were at the Mirakus raid saw the lag kick in when there were too many NPCs present. Spawning a zillion little guys for a large scale battle isn't a good solution.

Please folks, if you want DM's to review your comments, don't write in a rambling lengthy style. Summarize for us if you want attention. Eighteen stream-of-conscious paragraphs is not reasonable

[Xeesheava]

Obvious solution: Low level characters = Archers, High Level characters = Tanks.