Brambles Spell Overpowered

[Phantom Lamb]

Brambles can make any quarterstaff into a +10 attack / +10 damage weapon at mid-level. This is just broke and needs to be tweaked for balance I think.

[Verrath]

It gives +1 to both per caster level. Perhaps +1 per 2 caster levels instead would do the trick.

[Silas North]

Brambles and Stone Body are the two spells I have problems with personally, so I second this.

[Ethelo]

Yup, brambles is stupidly powerful.

[c2k]

If the hardcoded bug where the game treats attack bonuses and enchantment bonuses as the same still exists in NWN2, I agree that this spell should be tweaked. In PnP DnD, Brambles can't break thru DR X/<whatever constant> unless the weapon can specifically do it.

[Ethelo]

I don't think that bug is present, but even so an extra 10 ab and damage is excessive. Perhaps making it a max of 4? Something under 5 though I feel.

[c2k]

I don't think that bug is present, but even so an extra 10 ab and damage is excessive. Perhaps making it a max of 4? Something under 5 though I feel.

Its really not that bad by itself if that bug doesn't exist. Melee classes can get much higher at level 10, especially if you add in the Frenzies, the Rages, Weapon Specialization, etc.

The only way it would be broken, IMO, is if the game treated it as a +10 enchantment bonus.

[Product of Void]

+10 is way excesive for a low magic PW.

+3 is best you can get crafted

medium bab of a druid is only 4 bellow fighter so this gives them a perk of 6 over a fighters best attack.

why not make it like a mage's GMW and max at +5?

[Zoberraz]

Brambles is cute because it lets druid be reasonably effective with usually overlooked weapon that are thematically strong with the druid, like club and staff.

However, I do agree that the Bramble spell as implemented currently is very strong.

Do note that while being a level 2 spell, Brambles is also a very short spell in comparison to Greater Magic Weapon, with the limitation of affecting wooden items. In light of that, I'd consider the +1/+1 per 2 levels adjustment a dramatic enough improvement already - and it'd likely be reasonably easy to code in too.

[Phantom Lamb]

As it stands, there are people running around with 3d6/3d6/3d6 elemental damage staves with +10 to attack / damage. That needs changing.

Frankly, it upsets me that people were using this combination and didn't think to bring it to the staff's attention as overpowered. I won't go so far as to call it exploiting, but I'm not happy with those who abused this combo.

[Kaeldorn]

Will do something about it in a while, just need to determine what exactly. +1/2 caster levels as V suggested should be enough I think, all things considered.

[Phantom Lamb]

Thanks Kael. Since it's one level less than GMW, it sounds fine to put it on the same power level, as it's weapon-specific.

[Supreme Taco]

I will agree that Brambles is currently overpowered. I've watched a Druid throw that on his 1d6, 1d6, 1d6 elemental staff and have an obscene damage range with an AB that Fighters wouldn't sneeze at.

I'll also say that the +1 AB and +1 damage per two caster levels seem fine.

This is a +7 AB and +7 damage at level fifteen, which is really nice for a blunt item, but isn't entirely overpowered as you'll have to use a blunt item to get it.

[Zoberraz]

And at level fifteen, a cleric would be able to achieve about the same with Persistent Divine Favor and Greater Magic Weapon for a combination which would actually be 1 point stronger, but also last for hours.

...can Brambles be made Persistent?

[Kaeldorn]

You mean as in allowing the metamagic feat to be used on it? Brambles already has extend, quicken, still and persistent as possible mm feats. Just checked.